Has Gospel Music Gone TOO FAR?
 

August has been Youth Month at our church and yesterday, was the last day of our youth "revival". The youth choir sang some original music and one of the songs included a "rap" in the middle of the song. Some of the older church members were noticably uncomfortable by their youthful "spirit". The kids were "bouncing" and rockin' to the music...the whole nine. I, personally, enjoyed it and am happy that our youth are finding a way to express their spirituality. Our youth also want a Step Team. Our pastor is against it. However, it got me thinking.

Then, I was watching BET and all the gospel videos, etc. I'm not sure about how I feel about all of this "bling-bling for Jesus".

I was raised in a very "bougie" black baptist church. I was taught at a young age that clapping was NOT allowed or appropriate in church. I will never forget the time that a visitor came to our church and was clapping to the music, standing, and praising. One of the older church members called over and usher and ordered the usher to tell this visitor to STOP. :eek: So, when I became an adult and my husband and I selected the church that we attend, I was very hesitant, at first to PRAISE and WORSHIP. I finally understand that it is OK to clap your hands, stand up and PRAISE THE LORD.

But back to this gospel music thing....has it gone too far? What is too far in your eyes? There are a whole bunch of gospel rap artists out these days. Does all of the "rapping" and "beats" take away from the true message at hand?

I remember back in June when my church organization held it's Annual Holy Convocation. That Saturday evening we had service and the speaker's message was there needs to be a change in the Church. Sometimes we have to make changes in what we're doing, how we're doing it and sometimes you have to change who is doing it. The issue of rap in gospel music came up. I agreed with what he said - if you want to reach the youth, you may just have to "rap" about Jesus to some of them. You have to go down to their level sometimes to get them to understand what Jesus is about. The Gospel is supposed to be explained so that even a child can understand. As for the Baptist church you used to attend, they must have forgotten about Psalm 150:"....Let everything that have breath praise the Lord. Praise ye the Lord". Did they also forget that in the Bible, David danced and praised the Lord so much that his clothes fell off his body????

Just my opinion, that's all. ;)

At my church, we offer what's called "High Energy Praise and Worship" service for the youth. The youth pastor preaches the Word using rap, music vidoes, live music, etc. It has really been quite successful in bringing more youth out to the church to hear God's Word. :D

Re: Has Gospel Music Gone TOO FAR?
 

LMAO. Girl, that sounds like me. Girl, clapping and standing up? :o ohhhhh no! Moms would give the LOOK. LMAO!
Since I go to church without her, I've learned to clap my hands, stand, etc. :D

Yet, I feel funny when I'm with her and I do it. :o

Edit: To answer your question, YES some of these people In Gospel have gone too far. Some of that praising is straight up clubbin' (dance). :rolleyes:

I'm torn on this issue. I htink that has music changes, obviously gospel music will change with it. I think its important to reach youth in the best way BUT some of it is out of hand. Butterflying for the Lord is not ok!!!

I agree. I'm COGIC (church of God in Christ) and some young individuals from my mom's church wanted to start a group called "The Gospel Mafia":rolleyes: :rolleyes: . How ridiculous in my eyesight.........The word Mafia has always been associated from my understanding with murder, shadiness under the table, John Gotti, etc. Why would anyone want to put Mafia in a title to honor the Lord. Eventually this group left the church because Bishop wasn't having it....and I don't blame him.....

Honey I know what you mean about growing up in a "bougie" Baptist church. If my momma knew I clapped she'd DIE and if she knew I wore pants to church she'd turn over in her grave! lol:D
But personally, I think alot of these "traditions" in the church were man made with absolutely no biblical references to substantiate them.

In regards to gospel music, it IS evolving. But sometimes, I think some artist are missing the true sense of the word of praising God for mere entertainment. Bobby Jones....for example...is an entertainer. ....Anyways...
A person not strong in their faith may hither themselves to the word being sung (if they have a message) but how long will it last when the music stops? So in essence the parishoner has only been entertained not saved, healed, or delivered.

Considering that our world is changing, we too must change. But the individualistic question becomes is what we are singing relevant to what God wants us to do.

Re: Has Gospel Music Gone TOO FAR?
 

Well Prayerfull, I was also raised in a very "bougie" black Baptist church and left (in my early twenties) because I didn't feel that I was being "fed". I now attend a church which is non-denominational, however it would be considered "holiness". Our Bishop, a TRUE man of God, one day said that many churches get so caught up in TRADITION that they forget the TRUE purpose of the church. And I agree with him TOTALLY. The church that I now attend WELCOMES creativity IN THE NAME OF JESUS. Yes, we have an awesome choir, praise and worship teams, a step team, dance team, drums, keyboard, etc. (and, believe it or not, the majority of the members of these teams are...ADULTS). We sternly believe in praising the Lord with songs, cries, hand clapping, and dance (and I don't mean the Harlem Shake). :D :D Now our Bishop ain't no joke either. He's not going to have all kinds of non-sense going on in our church (Gosh, I just LOVE him so because he's a TRUE man of God and he's just so REAL). :) :) But people haveto remember WHO we are praising and calling out to. In essence, this is how I see it. The Word says that God is a "consuming fire". And when He gets a hold of you, it's literally IMPOSSIBLE to be still or keep quiet. Remember also that "when the praises go up, the blessings come down". God INHABITS and DWELLS IN the praises of His people. God loves for us to worship and praise Him. Finally, I want to remind you that our God is an AWESOME, WONDERFUL, MAGNIFICENT, LOVING, TRUSTING, FORGIVING, MERCIFUL, GRACEFUL, ALL-KNOWING, ALL-SEEING, ALL-DOING God. Just THINKING about that, I know that you would agree that He's WORTHY and DESERVING of AAALLLL the praise (that INCLUDES hand claps, dances, cries, and songs). :) :)

Now doing the BUTTERFLY for the Lord is over the top, to say the least. :D :D And I believe that many so-called "gospel" artists have completely LOST THEIR MINDS (for example, I just can't STAND Kirk Franklin). They are using the church to make a profit. But, hey, God sees them. And He's going to handle them.

Re: Re: Has Gospel Music Gone TOO FAR?
 

I just wanted to thank you for the reminder. I am in a TRUE struggle right now in my relationship with God and your post really did help put things in perspective for me. You just never know who you are touching with your words, so I just want to encourage everyone to keep the posts coming.

Re: Re: Re: Has Gospel Music Gone TOO FAR?
 

You're quite welcomed, Bamboozled. :) :) You are not alone. Not too long ago, I was there also. I just want you to know that there does NOT haveto be a struggle in your relationship with God. He wants you to be at peace. He wants you to trust Him. He wants you to know that He absolutely LOVES and ADORES you. And He wants you (along with everyone else) to KNOW that HE IS GOD. Here is some added food for thought. For a long time, I went mostly on what OTHERS (yes, even my mother) told me about God. Sure, I could quote you something out of the Bible and even give you a so-called "meaning". But I was going purely on what OTHER PEOPLE were telling me and not what God wanted to reveal to me himself. You see, I didn't know what a real PERSONAL relationship with God meant until I arrived at a state of utter CONFUSION. You see, I've learned that God does not dwell on what man dwells on. "His ways are not our ways and His thoughts are not our thoughts". We can't even BEGIN to think like Him. He's just way beyond what we can even begin to comprehend. So many people think that God is some type of tyrant who gets kicks out of seeing His people suffer and not prosper. But He's soooo much more deeper than that. All I can say is TALK to Him...that's all He wants. He YEARNS for a relationship with us. Just talk to Him...and then LEAVE it with Him. The Word says "I have never seen the righteous forsaken nor his seed bear bad bread". You haveto KNOW that you KNOW that you KNOW that you ARE the righteousness of God. Then, and ONLY then will you cease to be confused.

I'm praying for you (and you do the same for me, okay?). :) :) :)

WELL
 

THE GOSPEL MAFIA???? Oh my! lolllollol! Doing too much!

I do think sometimes it's going too far, like D.L. Hugley said in his stand up. I'm waiting for Kirk Franklin to accidently cuss while up on the stage.:p

I was raised in a baptist church where we yelled and praised. I loved it and I still do.


QTE

Culture vs. Christ
 

VERY GREAT TOPIC AND DISCUSSION!!!!!!

I have truly been blessed and challenged by the discussion. The issue of Gospel music going "too far" is an interesting one. What is "too far"? How do we determine it? From the posts I've read, it seems that too far is meant to be "too worldly"(i.e. doing the same dances that an unsaved person would do or the music having the same beat as some secular music does). So the issue here is "what is the culture of the church?" Some people would argue that the culture of the church is the culture of the people of the church. There are Arabic Christians, European Christians, African Christians, and African-American Christians, etc.. This means that people are going to relate to God and their worship experience in different ways. Some Caucasian people have a very liturgical approach to worship (everything scripted and they are more reverent in their worship) while many African Americans are more emotive and expressive in worship (more free and improvisational). I see the body of Christ welcoming all people and their different ways of worship. I just caution people on believing that one way is "truer or more authentic" than the other. What we see here is not differences in Gods worshiped or spirits present, but simply different cultures. I have seen file footage of whodun people in Haiti and some West African Muslims who get the so called "Holy Ghost" (working themselves up in a frenzi and expressing themselves with dance that seems uncontrollable). Often times we as African Americans confuse this with an infilling of the Holy Spirit. The bible teaches us that the fruit of the Spirit (the evidence of the spirit's infilling) are kindness, longsuffering, love, peace, joy, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control (Gal. 5:22). Not a specific dance or anything that we can only do in a church building or setting.

Many times when I hear people talking about things going too far, it is about a cultural difference, not a spiritual or biblical fallacy. Dancing is subjective. There are certain things that different people would deem inappropriate, the same with beats in music. Now if you limit your worship to the Sunday morning worship experience, then I could see where this would be a major issue. Rap is a cultural phenomenon which can be used to reach people, Paul uses the greek philosophical sayings to reach some greeks with the Gospel (read II Corin.). Is it appropriate in Sunday morning worship? I think it should be up to the individual and the body of Christ should recognize its diversity. The more intriguing question is is the use of rap music and hip-hop culture wrong, not whether it goes too far. But that is another thread.
AGAIN, THANK ALL OF YOU FOR THIS TOPIC!!!!

Blackwatch!!!

Sometimes they take it there
 

I was just talking about this with a friend of mine this weekend. She called me and told me to watch the new Mary, Mary video. I was like WTH:eek: . The video had a club scence to it and while the dances weren't raunchy it was a bit too much. I do believe that there are different types of way to worship and I see nothing wrong with gospel rap or more upbeat gospel music. But when you can't tell the difference between which one is secular and which one is gospel then I think it has been taken too far. I was floored the first time I heard Kirk Franklin say "bouyaka, bouyaka" in a gospel song:eek: . Maybe it's just me, but I don't think that some thing that reffers to gunshots belongs in gospel music. :(

Morning All - just a few thoughts to share:

- if we are really in the word would be really be worried about the order of service;

- how is it that Kirk Franklin and others know all the dance steps that I see folk doing in the club;

- if your soul is not being feed why not move to another ministry - - - God is still God;

- theres nothing wrong with drums, clapping, and all that - - - if that's what you like - - - move as the spirit leads you that's what its all about;

- The bottom line is that folk need to seek God before choosing a church home and the rest will come.

I think praising God through dance, song, clapping is okay. 2 Samuel 6 says that David leaped and danced before the Lord with all his might (that's a lot of leaping and dancing). There is nothing wrong with dancing as praises to God. (Psalms 149:3, Psalms 150:4, Ecclesiastes 3:4). Or clapping (Pslams 47:1, Pslams 98:8) However when dancing becomes sexual in nature, then you go from dancing for God to inticing other people to fall to lustly desires and that's sin.

I think it's interesting that other cultures have incorporated gospel lyrics into other particular styles of music with no problem. There is Christian country, rock, contemporary, opera, folk, etc. However, as soon as somebody comes out with Christian <gasp> rap, it can't be glorifying to God. Now, I don't particularly care for rap music, but if that's what somebody's preference is, who am I to say that it isn't pleasing to God? I've never done cartwheels in the church aisle before, I dont' see myself doing it anytime soon, but am I going to tell Sis. Jenkins that God is not pleased with her athletic contributions to the praise service? I am a firm believer that the lyrics and the messenger makes the music Christian, not necessarily the style.

On that note, I was HIGHLY UPSET when I saw "Bad Boy Entertainment" (after I confirmed this was P. Diddy's record company) with a song on my WOW Gospel 2002 CD. Now, that, in my opinion is TOO FAR. I don't care how famous you are, if you are singing about premarital sex, drugs, cohabitation, and living contently in these states in your own life, I don't want to hear you make any attempts at a gospel song. That's just plain hypocrisy and you better believe I returned the entire CD.