Deactivation - please help! :(

[FSUZeta]

"This issue happened at the end of my sophomore year, to one of my best friends and future roommates. At the time my roommate in the sorority house was on Exec. so I got to hear most of the details regarding the issue from Nationals's perspective. It's likely I don't know the whole story, but from what I discussed with the members of Exec and my friend, there were just flaws in the system that we couldn't clear up without risking more punishment. There was another incident where a girl was kicked out of the house, and that was reasonable. I'm trying to be fair, though I'm not sure if that comes off in these posts!"

No, you were not seeing the issue from the National perspective, because your best friend on exec. was not privy to the National perspective, even if she thinks she was.

Did you ever try to cooperate with your advisors? Did you ask their advice on what philanthropic events they had in mind for the chapter to sponsor? Could it be that your chapter were in the running for some national or district or province award if you were able to raise more money? Could it be that the lines of communication between advisors and collegians has broken down? Have you asked yourself what you could do differently to improve the relationship between the advisors and the collegians?

[wildcat601]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

No, you were not seeing the issue from the National perspective, because your best friend on exec. was not privy to the National perspective, even if she thinks she was.

Fair enough

Did you ever try to cooperate with your advisors?
-While I'm not on exec, the philanthropy committee accepted their rejections and carried on with our jobs.

Did you ask their advice on what philanthropic events they had in mind for the chapter to sponsor?
-We did, but they didn't have suggestions. We do a lemonade stand, so their only idea was to have more locations. While we sold lemonade for an additional day, we couldn't have multiple locations due to the size of our chapter and available volunteers.

Could it be that your chapter were in the running for some national or district or province award if you were able to raise more money?
-That could be the case, but I think they would have said something. I'm aware of one award that nationals gives to strong chapters, but membership retention is the only issue that is keeping us from winning it.

Could it be that the lines of communication between advisors and collegians has broken down? Have you asked yourself what you could do differently to improve the relationship between the advisors and the collegians?
-There is miscommunication but I'm not sure how to fix it. Our advisors and exec seem to work against each other rather than together, even when advisors help with recruitment workshops and things like that.
-I have asked myself this question, and it seems like joining the exec board could help. However, our president refuses to listen to members (including members of exec), so we have big issues with how she represents the chapter as a liaison between us and Nationals. If you've had any experiences with this, or have ideas on how members can help improve this kind of situation, I'd love to hear your suggestions.

Thanks for taking the time to read about a random girl's concerns! I appreciate your help.

[Cheerio]

Did you ever try to cooperate with your advisors? Did you ask their advice on what philanthropic events they had in mind for the chapter to sponsor? Could it be that your chapter were in the running for some national or district or province award if you were able to raise more money? Could it be that the lines of communication between advisors and collegians has broken down? Have you asked yourself what you could do differently to improve the relationship between the advisors and the collegians?

OP mentioned she felt micromanaged by her chapter's advisors (do I hear heli-Mom's taking on advisor roles now that their children are in college?)

Winning awards isn't always a chapter's main goal; sometimes meeting every goal set still doesn't get you The Award you are encouraged to seek.

Our chapter was encouraged to hold philanthropic events similar to those of our group's Top Overall Chapter. This proved difficult because Top Chapter member numbers were triple ours, and Top Chapter held outdoor car wash/Mr University contest/Dance Marathon while our campus preferred candy/bake sale events. Without high Philanthropic Numbers we were not considered well-rounded enough to win Top Chapter.

With our advisors and other small chapters, we asked our National Board to appreciate differences between campus cultures and made recommendations that standards for awards be changed. Thankfully National Board listened.

[wildcat601]

Originally Posted by Cheerio

With our advisors and other small chapters, we asked our National Board to appreciate differences between campus cultures and made recommendations that standards for awards be changed. Thankfully National Board listened.

This is a good point. The culture of my school is very different from most of the other schools where we have chapters. Size is less of an issue, but we're very studious and involved, and sororities aren't the priority.

I quote from one of our advisors:
"You girls describe yourselves as smart and diverse. The girls at State U describe themselves as hot and sloppy. I'm not saying you should be sloppy, but you should be more like the girls at State U."

She also requested that we send her pictures of the girls we want to give bids, because "you guys did a great job with the freshmen in this year's pledge class, but not so much with the new sophomores." It's just very different from what we want to get out of our experience.

[Cheerio]

Originally Posted by wildcat601

This is a good point. The culture of my school is very different from most of the other schools where we have chapters. Size is less of an issue, but we're very studious and involved, and sororities aren't the priority.

I quote from one of our advisors:
"You girls describe yourselves as smart and diverse. The girls at State U describe themselves as hot and sloppy. I'm not saying you should be sloppy, but you should be more like the girls at State U."

She also requested that we send her pictures of the girls we want to give bids, because "you guys did a great job with the freshmen in this year's pledge class, but not so much with the new sophomores." It's just very different from what we want to get out of our experience.

In my experience a woman improves herself by being in a sorority, the sorority does not improve by a particular woman being in it.

[33girl]

First off, thanks for the subsequent posts, they cleared up quite a bit.

Originally Posted by wildcat601

This is a good point. The culture of my school is very different from most of the other schools where we have chapters. Size is less of an issue, but we're very studious and involved, and sororities aren't the priority.

I quote from one of our advisors:
"You girls describe yourselves as smart and diverse. The girls at State U describe themselves as hot and sloppy. I'm not saying you should be sloppy, but you should be more like the girls at State U."

She also requested that we send her pictures of the girls we want to give bids, because "you guys did a great job with the freshmen in this year's pledge class, but not so much with the new sophomores." It's just very different from what we want to get out of our experience.

So I'm going to guess...you are at an Ivy or an Ivyesque for your area sort of school (which the sorority is very proud to have a chapter at because of its stellar academic reputation). Your advisors are from a Big 10/Pac 10/SEC school. They don't understand that students at the school in general, and Greek students in particular, have a different set of priorities and values than they may have had in their undergraduate experience.

The stress caused by the advisors and HQ constantly telling you that the members you're choosing aren't good enough and you aren't bringing in enough philanthropy $$ (while to the world they trumpet the fact that they have a chapter at Ivyesque U) has caused retention problems, in-for-a-buck-in-for-a-quarter risk management issues, and a lack of women who truly represent and are proud of what the chapter is about running for office (hence the suckup mealy-mouthed president). Even though you think the advisors are ridiculous, shallow and full of shit...someone telling you all the time that you're doing everything wrong is mentally and emotionally draining.

I advise you to go to your alumnae (and not the ones that graduated 5 years ago, the ones that graduated 15 years ago) and ask for their assistance and possible inclusion on your advisory board. It also might be a good idea to get in contact with chapters at schools similar to your own. A lot of chapters who have difficulties of this kind think/are made to think they're the only ones...when nothing could be further from the truth.

I don't think your advisors are evil, just clueless and unable to separate their sorority experience from what someone else's might be. If our groups were that homogenous on a national scale, we wouldn't bother having rush, we'd just pick people by their photos and resumes.

Oh, and that photo thing. I think you should tell your advisors that you couldn't take photos of the girls you want for your pledge class as they were all quite insistent that vampires can't be photographed.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by 33girl

So I'm going to guess...you are at an Ivy or an Ivyesque for your area sort of school (which the sorority is very proud to have a chapter at because of its stellar academic reputation). Your advisors are from a Big 10/Pac 10/SEC school. They don't understand that students at the school in general, and Greek students in particular, have a different set of priorities and values than they may have had in their undergraduate experience.

I'd also guess that she may be in a location where it is hard to get advisers, and so the HQ doesn't get to be terribly selective in who they put there.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

It's entirely possible that you have crappy advisors. You wouldn't be the first chapter, and you won't be the last, faced with this issue.

[wildcat601]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions. Interestingly, at my school there are only a few buildings where we aren't allowed to sell baked goods and beverages, and each semester about a dozen greek organizations have a late night food fundraiser.

As for advisors, I don't know how elections work, or how many volunteers we have in our area. Unfortunately my chapter is only 6 years old (we started on campus, left from the 70's to 00's, and came back), so we don't have many alumnae. Sororities are popular on campus but I guess the commitment isn't as strong as it is at other schools; our recent graduates don't feel the need to come back and visit haha.

[Titchou]

Not all groups "elect" advisers. I would venture that the majority are "appointed" by the powers-that-be. If you have an alumnae group in your area, I'd see about visting with them at one of their meetings - or having an event for them at your campus. You can show them what great ladies you are and "rush" them to be advisers!

I can also tell you that no matter what other groups on your campus do, if I were involved with your chapter, you would not be having a bake cale or midnight pancake event as you described. I had to shut one down when I was Director of Housing due to house risk management issues....and the chapter typically made a decent amount of money - it was a taco event. But that mattered not. It was open to the public and the "public" was not the "public" we wanted in the house. IS there a late night food place - IHOP or some local cafe - that you could partner with and have it there and the chapter's philanthropy get a portion of the proceeds? Chick-Fil-A does that here. Am sure there are others as well.

[KDCat]

I understand how frustrated you are. However, learning to build consensus across different factions in an organization is a leadership skill. You can quit or you can view this as a learning opportunity and continue to work on it. Bringing different factions to consensus is difficult. It is a valuable skill, though.

If I were going to start doing that, I would sit down with the advisors and listen to what they want. Don't talk; just listen. Go away and think about what they said, and then try to incorporate their concerns into your plans.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Titchou

Not all groups "elect" advisers.

Yeah, I never heard of such a thing...I certainly wasn't "elected" when I was part of an advisory board.

Unless ASTalumna is talking about about the school forcing you to have a faculty member as an advisor.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by Titchou

IS there a late night food place - IHOP or some local cafe - that you could partner with and have it there and the chapter's philanthropy get a portion of the proceeds? Chick-Fil-A does that here. Am sure there are others as well.

On my campus, groups would do fundraisers with Krispy Kreme and make a FORTUNE! Students could make orders ahead of time, and there would be a pick-up date, time, and place (usually in the student union) where they could get their donuts. Some extra boxes would also be ordered so people could buy them there on the spot if they wanted.

Originally Posted by 33girl

Yeah, I never heard of such a thing...I certainly wasn't "elected" when I was part of an advisory board.

Unless ASTalumna is talking about about the school forcing you to have a faculty member as an advisor.

I guess "elect" might not be the best word. It's not as though we had a group of alumnae all vying for the position, and the chapter was able to pick and choose who to put in the position. But we did vote (once every 2 years, I believe) to keep the current advisor we had. Our chapter advisor was awesome and has held the position for at least a decade (maybe close to two decades now?), so voting was basically just a formality. However, if there had been multiple people who wanted the job, then yes, it would have essentially been an election, but we all know that advisors don't just grow on trees.. on some campuses (mine included), advisory boards are difficult to fill.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Titchou

I can also tell you that no matter what other groups on your campus do, if I were involved with your chapter, you would not be having a bake cale or midnight pancake event as you described. I had to shut one down when I was Director of Housing due to house risk management issues....and the chapter typically made a decent amount of money - it was a taco event. But that mattered not. It was open to the public and the "public" was not the "public" we wanted in the house. IS there a late night food place - IHOP or some local cafe - that you could partner with and have it there and the chapter's philanthropy get a portion of the proceeds? Chick-Fil-A does that here. Am sure there are others as well.

I am guessing/hoping that the groups on her campus who do this don't actually let them IN the house. One of our chapters always used to have a chili feed and every picture I've seen of it, they were in the yard.

[AZTheta]

There's a difference between leading and managing; and advisors also need to understand what it means to advise.

"Sometimes one man with courage is a majority" - Andrew Jackson. OP, you can be that one man with courage; that's all it takes to start a change. I am willing to bet that there is at least ONE advisor (or potential advisor) who is willing to partner with you in formulating positive goals and initiating change.

My sense is that the OP is NOT going to resign. The information and feedback in this thread, along with her responses, encourage me to believe that she's going to make a positive difference in her chapter.