State of the Union Address

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by honeychile

One of the big reasons I didn't watch - that's getting old. It's time for the current administration (not just the President) to put on their big boy pants and quit whining.

I

It only gets old to those who don't want to face the truth.

[RU OX Alum]

Originally Posted by honeychile

One of the big reasons I didn't watch - that's getting old. It's time for the current administration (not just the President) to put on their big boy pants and quit whining.

I don't watch 100% of any State of the Union speech, but I'm not into pep rallies in the first place.


As for drinking games, drink every time Obama says "I". The last speech prior to last night, he said it 132 times.

I agree. You can only blame the last guy for so long. Plus, the resesetion was caused by the housing market bust, which was caused by suburban sprawl (which is right of the manifesto).

I didn't watch this, I was the train back from finding a new place in a new state. I'm sleepy.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by AGDee

If you're in the middle, then you hate some stuff and like other things.

Amen.

[KSigkid]

As for "blaming" the old administration - every administration does that to some extent. There's also a big difference between these two ideas:

1) The current administration doesn't deserve any blame because of the shortcomings of the Bush administration.

2) The Bush administration should be blamed for certain things, and the Obama administration should be blamed for certain things. Some of those things are mutually exclusive to each administration.

My sense is that the Obama administration rhetoric is closer to #2, while some administration supporters in the public and press are saying something closer to #1.

Originally Posted by AGDee

But I do have some questions:
Why is a socialist education system ok but a socialist health care system is not?

Why would moving to a more competitive health care system be considered socialistic? Personally, I would love to have a choice regarding health care rather than have it be in my employer's hands.

Why is it ok to rack up trillions in national debt to fight a foreign war but not to meet the medical needs of our people?

Those are some of things I don't understand and would really like to hear answers that make sense to me.

I'd also point out that, personally, Ms. Average Middle Class here has already had a larger cut with the stimulus package than I had with the Bush tax cuts.

It cracks me up when people talk about the above points as if they are the standard Republican platform. These are issues talked up by a vocal minority of the Republican party in a (apparently successful) effort to get attention. Note to everyone: Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh don't speak for the party.

One thing in particular on the bolded portion: The true Conservatives out there weren't happy about the spending when Bush was President. There is a significant portion of the Republican party that wasn't happy with Bush as a President and thought he wasn't a true conservative because of how much money he spent on the war and other measures.

[Ghostwriter]

Originally Posted by KSigkid

One thing in particular on the bolded portion: The true Conservatives out there weren't happy about the spending when Bush was President. There is a significant portion of the Republican party that wasn't happy with Bush as a President and thought he wasn't a true conservative because of how much money he spent on the war and other measures.

As I am what I consider a "true" conservative (social and fiscal), I can attest to the above. I was appalled with the spending that occurred under Bush. With the full employment we enjoyed and low taxes we could have easily maintained a balanced budget and should have been able to start paying off some of our massive debt. Look at the fiasco of "No Child Left Behind" and the prescription drugs program for seniors.

As a swerve;

If I were in charge or had the power I would propose:

1. exempting the first $35K of wages from income taxes
2. moving to a flat rate of 14% for everything over $35K for everyone
3. remove all deductions except for charitable
4. a 10% reduction in spending across the board for all departments in the Federal govt.
5. do away with all czar's
6. shut down the Surgeon General's Office
7. return the Dept. of Educations duties to the states
8. cut capital gains to 15%
9. reduce the tax burden on small businesses (20 employees or less) by 1/2
10. privatize Social Security for those under 55 years of age
11. totally revamp Medicaid and Medicare
12. do away with all earmarks
13. do away with the inheritance tax
14. require that everyone pay their taxes directly to the IRS themselves and not have them paid via their employer
15. not allow congress to increase their own pay. approval by the voting public, only.
16. term limits of 2 six year terms for the senate and 6 two year terms for the house
17. require that for every law written by congress one must be rescinded. the less laws they write the better.
18. require the budget to be balanced by law

When you get right down to it the root of most evil in Washington is via manipulation of the tax codes for self interest. The above would most certainly shut down a large portion of the IRS and yield further savings.

Off my "true conservative" soap box, now.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by Ghostwriter

As I am what I consider a "true" conservative (social and fiscal), I can attest to the above. I was appalled with the spending that occurred under Bush. With the full employment we enjoyed and low taxes we could have easily maintained a balanced budget and should have been able to start paying off some of our massive debt. Look at the fiasco of "No Child Left Behind" and the prescription drugs program for seniors.

As a swerve;

If I were in charge or had the power I would propose:

1. exempting the first $35K of wages from income taxes
2. moving to a flat rate of 14% for everything over $35K for everyone
3. remove all deductions except for charitable
4. a 10% reduction in spending across the board for all departments in the Federal govt.
5. do away with all czar's
6. shut down the Surgeon General's Office
7. return the Dept. of Educations duties to the states
8. cut capital gains to 15%
9. reduce the tax burden on small businesses (20 employees or less) by 1/2
10. privatize Social Security for those under 55 years of age
11. totally revamp Medicaid and Medicare
12. do away with all earmarks
13. do away with the inheritance tax
14. require that everyone pay their taxes directly to the IRS themselves and not have them paid via their employer
15. not allow congress to increase their own pay. approval by the voting public, only.
16. term limits of 2 six year terms for the senate and 6 two year terms for the house
17. require that for every law written by congress one must be rescinded. the less laws they write the better.
18. require the budget to be balanced by law

When you get right down to it the root of most evil in Washington is via manipulation of the tax codes for self interest. The above would most certainly shut down a large portion of the IRS and yield further savings.

Off my "true conservative" soap box, now.

I can't fault any of your ideas, but no one would ever pass them...lobbyists would have no power and that's just not the American way!

[Ghostwriter]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

I can't fault any of your ideas, but no one would ever pass them...lobbyists would have no power and that's just not the American way!

And you my dear are absolutely correct. We don't have the will to do what is right. However, I can guarantee you that if we do not do something rather quickly we are heading for an economic catastrophe.

Just read that there are 2.15 MM people on the Federal Govt. payroll. Totally unsustainable.

Also the debt ceiling was raised today to 2 trillion. This is the 4th time it was raised in less than a year.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by Ghostwriter

If I were in charge or had the power I would propose:
[LIST=1][*]exempting the first $35K of wages from income taxes

I'm not a fan of that idea because we would have even more of the population having ZERO tax liability. I think we need an across the board tax percentage that every income earner pays regardless of income. When you have only one segment paying taxes it turns into a " the haves vs the have nots" thing. With everyone paying into the system more people will be mindful of Federal and local spending and where their money is going. I like the original American way of only land owners ( tax payers) being able to vote. I admit it's an extreme way of thinking, but since tax payers are the ones providing the funding, we should have a more weighted voice.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by shimano

[/LIST]Anyone making less that 35k is not pulling their weight and they should be deported.

Not true at all, a single person making 28-35k can live quite comfortably depending on the region they live in.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by shimano

I stand corrected. Anyone making less than 28k should be deported.

Deported where? You can't deport a USC to a different country unless they are a dual citizen of that country AND that country is willing to accept them.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by shimano

I stand corrected. Anyone making less than 28k should be deported.

They'd keep coming back after being deported . . . just like you do after being banned.

[Ghostwriter]

Originally Posted by shimano

I stand corrected. Anyone making less than 28k should be deported.

Now you are just being confrontational for the fun of it. You are starting to appear troll like. There are many members of society who contribute mightily to our country and make less than 28k. I venture to guess that many members of our military make less than that. Teachers at private schools, pastors at small churches and people just starting out after college. Your servers at the favorite restaurant probably make less. How about part time workers? Heck I even quit my job and started my own business and the start up did not allow me to make that much. Should I be deported? I believe that illegal aliens should be deported when found and our borders tightened but you cannot make statements such as you do and paint with that broad of a brush. You are starting to sound silly or are you just trolling for a reaction?

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by KSigkid

As for "blaming" the old administration - every administration does that to some extent. There's also a big difference between these two ideas:

1) The current administration doesn't deserve any blame because of the shortcomings of the Bush administration.

2) The Bush administration should be blamed for certain things, and the Obama administration should be blamed for certain things. Some of those things are mutually exclusive to each administration.

My sense is that the Obama administration rhetoric is closer to #2, while some administration supporters in the public and press are saying something closer to #1.


One thing in particular on the bolded portion: The true Conservatives out there weren't happy about the spending when Bush was President. There is a significant portion of the Republican party that wasn't happy with Bush as a President and thought he wasn't a true conservative because of how much money he spent on the war and other measures.

Even if "true" conservatives were not happy, they certainly didn't make it all that clear. I think in situations like that people need to let go of strict party support and just say, "hey. There's something about this that is making much sense. we need to step back and rethink this."

And to be honest, my support for Obama aside, I think right now that the main issues we are facing ARE the result of the Bush administration. I don't think there has been enough time to say now that we are facing things that are a result of the shortcomings of the Obama administration. This was one of my concerns about Obama winning though. I felt as though republicans (still don't get why we need to call each other liberals and conservatives) were going to just try and throw all blame on Obama.

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

Even if "true" conservatives were not happy, they certainly didn't make it all that clear. I think in situations like that people need to let go of strict party support and just say, "hey. There's something about this that is making much sense. we need to step back and rethink this."

I think they did make it clear. The problem is that the Limbaughs and the Becks (and on the liberal side, the Olbermanns) are the loudest voices, and they drown out a lot of the other voices.

I think people did let go of strict party support, and I think people have proven they can let go of strict party support. It's the reason why Bush had such a low approval rating, why Obama won so convincingly, and the reason why so many Republicans ditched the McCain ticket after he chose Palin as a running mate.

ETA: One thing I'm trying to stress is that AGDee's comment isn't particular to the ardent Bush supporters. There are going to be certain Obama supporters who ignore his mistakes. Again, that's just an issue with the political world today, in that some people refuse to see the problems with their favorite candidate/politician.

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

And to be honest, my support for Obama aside, I think right now that the main issues we are facing ARE the result of the Bush administration. I don't think there has been enough time to say now that we are facing things that are a result of the shortcomings of the Obama administration. This was one of my concerns about Obama winning though. I felt as though republicans (still don't get why we need to call each other liberals and conservatives) were going to just try and throw all blame on Obama.

How much is enough time, though? Two years? After his first term?

The thing is, a new President is always going to blame the old administration for certain issues. Obama will blame Bush, who blamed Clinton, who blamed Bush, who blamed Reagan, who blamed Carter, who blamed Ford and Nixon, etc. That's just what happens when a new party comes into power (whether right or wrong).

I'm not saying that the new administration should be blamed for every problem. But, there can be blame for certain collateral issues. An example: it may not be accurate to say that a new President created a problem on his own. However, it may be accurate to say that, through some of his policy decisions, a new administration made the problem worse or better.

I used conservatives and liberals because, in my mind, it's more of an accurate label. I don't think that calling someone a "Democrat" or a "Republican" can fairly encompass how they feel on issues. As an example, I'm a registered Republican primarily because of my economic beliefs: I'm also pro-choice, anti-death penalty, and I have no problem with gay marriage.

I understand that the terms "conservative" and "liberal" have their own limitations as well, so I'm not suggesting that everyone has to use the terms. It's just my own way of saying things.

[Kappamd]

^^^Well if that isn't the pot calling the kettle black......