Indiana University 2014 Recruitment

[Maman]

Are all the Alabama housing costs subsidized by the university, fully supported by national, or do the current members bear the burden of the cost? Specifically questioning about the newly built houses.

Checking back through IU history via the internet and it seems that one of the larger 'housed' sororities didn't meet quota.

There seem to be plenty of questions about the IU process.

[Titchou]

Originally Posted by Maman

Are all the Alabama housing costs subsidized by the university, fully supported by national, or do the current members bear the burden of the cost? Specifically questioning about the newly built houses.

Checking back through IU history via the internet and it seems that one of the larger 'housed' sororities didn't meet quota.

There seem to be plenty of questions about the IU process.

All Greek housing at Alabama is paid for by the group that owns it - room rent, parlor fees/living out fees, meals, etc. The individual group's budget has to pay the freight...including the mortgage. At schools where the U owns the housing, they still have to pay rent to the U - for instance, Willamette, NCSU, Auburn, etc, etc, etc. NO ONE gives us any housing!

[SWTXBelle]

Looking in vain for "every girl should get a bid" quote from "everyone" . . .

[Rhomom]

"And the Rho Gamma who told her group that they should rank the unhoused chapters last because they have to take everyone should be ashamed of herself and be reported. NOW. As a Rho Gamma you should be impartial, you should not make blanket statements about how to rank, and you should not perpetuate falsehoods that “those chapters have to invite everyone back.” It’s just ridiculous, and NOT TRUE."

Said no Rho gamma ever.

Sorry for the length of this-and I have never posted before, but I have a different perspective--as an Indiana grad who went through the system 25 years ago and did not receive a bid, as the mother of twins who went through recruitment two years ago--one received a bid and one went bidless, and as a mother of a current rhogam, (who has been in tears continually for the past week), I am here to tell you that regardless of who you are, what your current status is (PNM, active, rhogam, mom), this process is brutal for everyone.

To moms whose hearts are breaking because this has been so difficult; I know how frustrated and angry you are--I lived it. But also know that there is not one current active who finds this anything but agonizing. They, like the PNM's have not eaten, have not slept and are absolutely disgusted by the process.

To the poster that said that taking more members makes it less special? That chapters should be exclusive? You are dead wrong--most of these ladies would do anything to be able to make this system more inclusive. Comments such as this serve to only perpetuate the perception of "mean girls". There may indeed be some of those as well, but they do not represent the majority of women in houses.

Regarding the unhoused chapters; I have never heard one negative comment from my daughter or any of her sisters, friends, or acquaintances. PNM's may be hearing that these houses are "less than" from each other, but they are NOT hearing it from current actives. In fact the Greek system has welcomed and supported the expansion--it can only strengthen the system.

And as far as a rhogam encouraging PNMs to rank unhoused chapters higher because they "take everyone"? I would carefully question the PNM who thinks she may have heard that comment. Based on what my daughter has said, and the absolute commitment of these young women to provide support and counsel to PNM's, it is much more likely that this was a comment generated from assumptions because a rhogam encouraged her group to not rank by perceived reputation.

Lastly, IU admissions has no control over the current system, nor does the administration, the board of trustees or the dean of students. Short of removing sororities from campus, their hands are tied. I know this because I am also an IU "employee". Believe me, we are bracing for unhappy students and parents, and are very, very tired of the way things are done. The only people that can change this is panhel, individual nationals and NPC.

[pinksequins]

Hoosierxgirl, I am sorry you have such a parochial view of the world that you haven't a clue how to manage alternate logistics or to even reach out to others who do. It's an amazingly useful life skill.

Tellingly and sadly, the Hoosier rationalizations are just that -- rationalizations -- not compelling reasons. It's very small thinking.

[pinksequins]

Rhomom -- you note that the actives are disgusted with the process. The good news is that they are the ones with the power to change it.

[stbemtpynest]

Originally Posted by pinksequins

Rhomom -- you note that the actives are disgusted with the process. The good news is that they are the ones with the power to change it.

^^^ This! I don't understand - if they are disgusted with the process then why is it still the process?

[ASTalumna06]

Rhomom, I'm confused by this entire exchange (parts have been redacted to highlight the point I'm driving at):

Originally Posted by Rhomom

To moms whose hearts are breaking because this has been so difficult; I know how frustrated and angry you are--I lived it. But also know that there is not one current active who finds this anything but agonizing. They, like the PNM's have not eaten, have not slept and are absolutely disgusted by the process.

To the poster that said that taking more members makes it less special? That chapters should be exclusive? You are dead wrong--most of these ladies would do anything to be able to make this system more inclusive. Comments such as this serve to only perpetuate the perception of "mean girls". There may indeed be some of those as well, but they do not represent the majority of women in houses.

……..

Lastly, IU admissions has no control over the current system, nor does the administration, the board of trustees or the dean of students. Short of removing sororities from campus, their hands are tied. I know this because I am also an IU "employee". Believe me, we are bracing for unhappy students and parents, and are very, very tired of the way things are done. The only people that can change this is panhel, individual nationals and NPC.

Originally Posted by pinksequins

Rhomom -- you note that the actives are disgusted with the process. The good news is that they are the ones with the power to change it.

Originally Posted by Rhomom

No, unfortunately the current actives do not. In fact, they have very little control (individually) of who gets through. Perhaps as alums they will become involved--then they may be able to change things. But for now, they too play with the cards they are dealt.

Originally Posted by pinksequins

RhoMom -- they do. If as many women as you allege are unhappy with the process they can make it known to their Panhellenic delegates and alumnae. So, either the degree of dissatisfaction is overstated or it's another rationalization for not doing anything. I just keep reading lame excuses.

Originally Posted by Rhomom

I "allege" nothing. This is simply the way it is. Actives HAVE expressed their concerns--to panhel, to nationals and they have worked with NPC. IU has opened up for expansion, many houses are allowing live outs and there are some small strides being made. It is however Panhel with direction from Nationals and alums who make the process decisions, not current members. If you are affiliated with an organization that allows current actives to drive the recruitment process, that is terrific, however it is not that simple. This is a complex system issue requiring a major shift in culture. The actives who feel this way today must continue to pursue change when they do have the power to impact things--as alumna.

If EVERYONE - the national organizations, alumnae, NPC, the school's administration, the active students (who apparently have "no say" in the matter…) - want this system to be changed, and the national organizations, alumnae, and NPC have the power to change it, why hasn't it been changed? According to what you've said here, if they tried, they would encounter zero resistance.

What am I missing here?

And why would the current students have no say? I admittedly know very little about this system, other than what has been posted here on Greekchat over the years, but I can't imagine that the active members of these chapters who run Panhellenic on their campus have no ability to change the system so that they make 1800 PNMs and thousands of active sisters happy. I don't know of any other campus where the active members of the NPC sororities can't make decisions that impact recruitment and Greek life as a whole.

How is this campus different?

[Lalucas]

First here is my situation/outlook on all of this... I have a daughter who is already in a sorority at IU... we have discussed the wackiness of the live out policies? how it limits how many can pledge, how some house do it and others don't.

1. She tells me that she and her friend have no say in the policies.. I say it must come up for a vote and she says no. She doesn't know who or win it gets decided but is sure seems like it is not a referendum from the members because the rank and file is not discussing it at hers.

2. Most of her friends would like to live out as seniors..most of them belong to sororities that even if they officially allow it... don't let it happen much or not at all.

3. the members work very hard during rush and many of them get frustrated too, and they can't even tell their mothers how it really works. But I do believe that if you aren't already "in" with a group that you have a very very uphill battle to get in.

4. Even in the around 40 size pledge classes all the girls don't end up best friends with everyone.. there are still girls they like better than others and some they don't like at all. The pledge class doesn't even really meet until that first bid nite as even in 3 party they are spread out among 4 parties.

5. PNM's have a whole semester to make an impression and stand out to a house... waiting until the actual events and thinking that will work out well is naive. that said I think the lack of pre-recruitment activities will prove out to be a bigger deal than anticipated. But I'm not sure in which way... more openness to new faces or more reliance on prior friends and connections.

and lastly from a $$$$$ point of view...it is my understanding that Greek alumni donations are very high especially in proportion to their numbers...so keeping them happy may be an incentive to the University admin. and the ones that are Greek got in the "old bad way"

I look forward to any discussions my post provokes.

Good luck to all - parents and girls with tomorrow. I too remember the stress of this night and the long day tomorrow waiting for that phone call from our daughters.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by Lalucas

5. PNM's have a whole semester to make an impression and stand out to a house... waiting until the actual events and thinking that will work out well is naive. that said I think the lack of pre-recruitment activities will prove out to be a bigger deal than anticipated. But I'm not sure in which way... more openness to new faces or more reliance on prior friends and connections.

I have worked with chapters in my volunteer role at schools that have deferred recruitment (recruitment in spring semester) and many girls underestimate the importance of that first semester. It is a make or break.

There's a lot of "I just don't know why they dropped me, I have a 4.0, am cute, and cured cancer!" that goes on with IU PNMs. That PNM fails to realize that the chapter that dropped her can only take 40 women and in most cases, likely already HAD a good idea of who they were interested in by December.

Sure, there are some chapters that have some wiggle room with numbers. The ones that can take more and would be likely to give a PNM they've never met a closer look.

But generally, the chapters for whom every PNM is like "omg I just have to be an XYZ or I will die!" have VERY limited spots. They have to go into recruitment with some sort of an idea of who they are interested in because numbers-wise, they need to start making the cuts somewhere. And most of the time, every member has like 2 or 3 women they already know and love going into recruitment. In a chapter of say, 150, if everyone has 2 women that they love, that's 300 women. Then think about the fact that that chapter only has say, 60 spots. You can see that as the "wild card" PNM who has zero relationships with sorority women before recruitment, your chances at an invite here are slim.

[Rhomom]

Originally Posted by pinksequins

Rhomom -- you note that the actives are disgusted with the process. The good news is that they are the ones with the power to change it.

No, unfortunately the current actives do not. In fact, they have very little control (individually) of who gets through. Perhaps as alums they will become involved--then they may be able to change things. But for now, they too play with the cards they are dealt.

[APhiO&ADPiGal]

Originally Posted by Rhomom

No, unfortunately the current actives do not. In fact, they have very little control (individually) of who gets through. Perhaps as alums they will become involved--then they may be able to change things. But for now, they too play with the cards they are dealt.

I've been reading through this thread and just banging my head at the insanity of the whole process, but I really can't let this comment slide. As a senior in my chapter and a former (2 term) Panhellenic delegate for my chapter, I'm pretty baffled.

It's simple - talk to or email your President. Your chapter delegate. Your PHC officers. Email doesn't work? Go to a Panhellenic meeting and state your views. (I'm not sure about every school, but we had PHC association meetings occasionally that we encouraged women from all chapters to attend.) I understand IU is a far bigger school than my own (less than 5 chapters), but communicating with each other's pretty darn simple with email, texting, phones, and just stopping by the dorm/meeting room.

Change may not happen overnight, but it is the women in the chapters right now that vote on Panhellenic as delegates, propose Panhellenic legislation, serve as officers, and run the governing body - and not the alumnae of each chapter.

[33girl]

I know this is probably different for every group, but can a housing corp place any restrictions on the women who live in the house (i.e. can they say seniors have to live out)? Or do they not have that much power?

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I know this is probably different for every group, but can a housing corp place any restrictions on the women who live in the house (i.e. can they say seniors have to live out)? Or do they not have that much power?

I can't speak for IU but as far as my particular sorority and chapter, any changes to our local housing policies had to be voted on as they were part of our local bylaws and any bylaw changes require a vote.

[ChioLu]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I know this is probably different for every group, but can a housing corp place any restrictions on the women who live in the house (i.e. can they say seniors have to live out)? Or do they not have that much power?

At the universities I've been involved with (mine, & as an Advisor at 2 campuses), it's in the chapter by-laws. Voted on by the chapter, with House Corporation involvement (budget planning).

There's a minumum # of members who have to live in (so the house is not operating in the red), plus a point system to see who lives in the house & what room they get (based on year, attending activities & events, volunteering for in-house duties, if you hold an office, etc.) It's a cumulative total, so seniors end up having the most points & are not required to live in (unless a member holds an Executive Office). It works quite well and Exec. doesn't have to beg actives to do things (like set up for chapter meetings) because the members are earning points!

I'm sure Jean (NPC) knows about the challenge of IU's system. Will talk to her about it.