Institutions with national sororities

[33girl]

I don't blame ClioGirl06 for feeling defensive, because when you say things like "some are more like clubs than sororities" - well hell, there are chapters of NPC sororities who are like that. Just because you send a report in to national saying you did this philanthropy and held that meeting doesn't mean it's true.

There is a lot more accountability than there used to be, but I bet most of us can think of a national chapter here and there who did nothing but social functions and mixers and got away with it for one reason or another.

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I don't blame ClioGirl06 for feeling defensive, because when you say things like "some are more like clubs than sororities" - well hell, there are chapters of NPC sororities who are like that. Just because you send a report in to national saying you did this philanthropy and held that meeting doesn't mean it's true.

There is a lot more accountability than there used to be, but I bet most of us can think of a national chapter here and there who did nothing but social functions and mixers and got away with it for one reason or another.

Some (note I said SOME not ALL) locals are indeed more like clubs than sororities the way we think of NPC members. As oldu pointed out, some of them have assigned membership. Some of them want to wear greek letters in an attempt to be "cool", but really don't want to do anything other than the social.

As to the nationals - I'd like to think that any NPC chapter that did nothing but socials would soon be put right by their HQ and advisors. I really can't think of a national chapter at any of the schools I attended or have worked at or with that would fit the description of a mere club.
Obviously, Clio's local has a great deal going for it or it wouldn't have been around as long as it has. That is why she need not feel defensive .

[violetpretty]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Locals are not in the league of any NPC in terms of active members, alumnae, resources, programming, housing, networking, etc. That's a simple fact. NPC members are rightly proud of what their groups have achieved.

No opinion here. Just fact. NPC chapters have anywhere from 40-170 active chapters (most over 100) and anywhere from 15,000 to 240,000 members (most over 100,000---granted some are deceased alumnae). With numbers like that, there's no way a local can compare with the resources that an NPC offers.

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

That doesn't mean that a local group cannot have a strong sisterhood, traditions, or campus presence.

These are things that locals AND NPCs can offer. Otterbein also comes to mind when I think of a campus with a strong local tradition.

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

It doesn't mean a local is just a "clique" - but some are indeed more like clubs than sororities. As oldu pointed out, some of them are run radically differently than NPC sororities.

There is this one local (I think at a CUNY school) that has Ariel, the Little Mermaid as its mascot. I think this is a good example of why some people see locals as "not real" and unfairly lump them all together as "not real".

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

There's really no need to be so defensive. It makes you look like you have a chip on your shoulder.

I'd agree with this.

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Many locals, after all, eventually become NPC sororities, which would not be the case if the women weren't of the same "caliber" as their brethren in the NPC. Heck, we all started out as "locals".

Exactly. SWTXBelle is saying that the women in locals are usually of the same caliber as women in NPC sororities. This is one reason why, often, an NPC is happy to asborb a local.

ETA: Clio, some people are skeptical about locals for several reasons:
1. Because there is no HQ to answer to, a local can get away with much more (hazing, parties, underage drinking, other risk management issues) than a(n) (inter)national. That doesn't mean that all locals are risk management nightmares, however.
2. Some locals, particularly the more recently founded ones, have mascots like Ariel, Calvin and Hobbes, Babs bunny, etc. or their letters are Eta Omega Tau and they advertise themselves as "HOT" girls or they have mottoes like "No ugly people allowed" or their colors are "hot pink and black" (all real examples from GC). The mascot, letters, or motto makes one question what their sisterhood is really about. After my initiation, I was really moved by the real meaning of our symbols, letters, etc. and how they fit together and really show purpose instead of being arbitrarily chosen because hot pink and black are my favorite colors. (NOTE: I highly doubt this applies to your local since it was founded in 1872)
3. Similar to #2, some locals are perceived as having less staying power because some don't have a solid purpose, (some are copycats of NPCs, some were founded by a transfer, some were founded by an angry girl who got cross-cut, etc.) or merely because they are young and have not stood the test of time. Again, this probably does not apply to your local.
4. The resources. Locals can not compare to the resources that NPCs offer merely because of numbers. Some people think that more resources=better. I love thinking that I can move almost anywhere in the country (or even in Europe) and know that there will be Sigma Kappas nearby.

Know that what I said aren't necessarily things I believe, but reasons why some people think locals are inferior.

When I think of my high school drama bunch, officially called the Midnight Players, we are kind of like a local, co-ed fraternity. We are all very close, and alumni are super loyal and come back for shows and support each other in post high school dramatic endeavors. Do we have the money, manpower, scholarships, networking, etc. that would compare with a national counterpart? No. Does that diminish what I treasure from being a Midnight Player? Of course not.

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by ClioGirl06

Don't want to thread jack but,wow you tell me not to be defensive but when you make comments like...
"Many locals, after all, eventually become NPC sororities, which would not be the case if the the women weren't of the same "caliber" as their brethren in NPC" and
"locals are not in the league of any NPC in terms of active members, alumnae, resources, programming, housing, networking, etc. That's a simple fact. NPC members are rightly proud of what their groups have achieved"

...I certainly cannot help it. NPC groups should be proud of their achievements and heritage but with those comments you are belittling the achievements and heritage of all locals. I'm not sure about your school but all seven locals at mine and the ones I've met at other SUNY schools go through recruitment, new member processes, new member SELECTION, initiations, required philanthropy hours, etc. Just because we choose not to affiliate nationally (for many valid reasons) does not make us not of the same "caliber as our brethren in the NPC".

**This rant is not in anyway against NPC orgs. I went through both national and local recruitment at my school, have many friends in the NPC orgs. at my school and respect all the great things they do on campus, I am merely annoyed at the assumption by many on the forum that if your not NPC your not "real"**

Umm . . .re-read what you posted from my quote. My whole point was that you were indeed of the same caliber. In fact, that's what I said.

Are you disputing what I said about the achievements of NPCs? Because otherwise, why bring it up to say that it is justification for being defensive? If it's true (and it is), then why should it make you defensive ? What in the world did I state that would make you feel I thought "if your (SIC) not NPC your (SIC) not real"?

The guilty man flees where none pursue . . .

But let's just halt this hijack right here. YES Clio - your local is a very real GLO who I am sure has a strong sisterhood and tradition. Okay? The topic of the thread is specfically national sororities. That isn't to say locals aren't important, or valid, or worthy of their own thread. It just means that this particular thread is dealing with national/international groups.

[pbear19]

CG, I'm a member of a local, and I don't think anyone here is belittling locals. It's a fact that my local doesn't have the same infrastructure as a national org. It's not putting us down to say that, it's just a fact. And, what SWTXBelle said about caliber was a compliment. It's been established that pretty much every NPC started out as a local, and we know that many sororities today that are local may not be local at some point in the future. That's a credit to the strong sisterhood of locals.

I also don't think she or anyone else was implying that a local that has always been and will always be local is inferior. At least, that's not how I interpreted it at all.

[texas*princess]

Originally Posted by ClioGirl06

TP: It is the fraternities at my school that were primarily once Nat'l now turned local, mostly due to financial hardships of maintaining Nat'l dues. The Local sororities to my knowledge were never chapter of current NPC groups, some were regional literary societies but most chapters disappeared in the early 1900's and the remaining chapter have little to no affiliation to each other.

Actually just a few days ago I was reading this thread and I can't remember if I followed a link that was originally there somewhere or if I Googled it seperately, but there was a page I recall seeing that included one of your Clio chapters and a few others that were once part of nationals. There were numerous locals (both fratnerities and sororities) that were listed as previously being affiliated with NPC/IFC organizations that voluntarily returned their charters because of the "strict rules"...

but I digress.

[SWTXBelle]

I don't think you even read what I post.

I quoted you above, and wrote quite clearly. You were the one who started by trying to slam NPCs with your (incorrect) comment about how your local was older than ANY NPC. After making that kind of error, you'll have to pardon us for thinking that perhaps your Greek knowledge and experience is rather limited and parochial.

If you don't want us to think you have a chip on your shoulder, how about you stop acting so defensive and give it a rest? Really, I've tried several times to calm the waters and return to the topic at hand, but you just won't stop being defensive. Let it go, already. The thread is about national sororities so either contribute positively to the topic or go post something in the local forum.

[SWTXBelle]

I wonder - does housing play any part in deciding whether or not a Greek system continues or closes? Is a system without housing, or only with university housing, more likely to close?

I know the issue of housing is an important component of the Greek experience on some campuses - even figuring into quota on some campuses. It was an issue in the late unpleasantness at DePauw. Thoughts, anyone?

[Cutie_Hootie]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

I wonder - does housing play any part in deciding whether or not a Greek system continues or closes? Is a system without housing, or only with university housing, more likely to close?

I know the issue of housing is an important component of the Greek experience on some campuses - even figuring into quota on some campuses. It was an issue in the late unpleasantness at DePauw. Thoughts, anyone?

I believe it plays a major role. On my tiny campus, Greek life has declined from approximately 75% Greek during my era (mid-90s) to about 50% now. In talking to the collegians and college officials, one major reason is housing. Our houses are college owned. They were built in about 1950, and have few amenities common to today's college student. When I was there, every house was filled to capacity, and every sorority was at total.

Today (on a campus where 100% of students live on campus) with new apartment style housing being constructed, with the dorms being remodeled to include air conditioning, and with what the university calls "tiered housing", we struggle to fill our house at times. Only two of the sororities are at total (which has declined from 90 to 68 in the past three years). The students want to live in the nice dorms, and the college encourages it. The anti-Greek feelings are strong these days, and the college would love nothing more than to close our chapters, and take our houses (which they would then turn into themed housing and charge out the wazoo).

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by Cutie_Hootie

I believe it plays a major role. On my tiny campus, Greek life has declined from approximately 75% Greek during my era (mid-90s) to about 50% now. In talking to the collegians and college officials, one major reason is housing. Our houses are college owned. They were built in about 1950, and have few amenities common to today's college student. When I was there, every house was filled to capacity, and every sorority was at total.

Today (on a campus where 100% of students live on campus) with new apartment style housing being constructed, with the dorms being remodeled to include air conditioning, and with what the university calls "tiered housing", we struggle to fill our house at times. Only two of the sororities are at total (which has declined from 90 to 68 in the past three years). The students want to live in the nice dorms, and the college encourages it. The anti-Greek feelings are strong these days, and the college would love nothing more than to close our chapters, and take our houses (which they would then turn into themed housing and charge out the wazoo).

YIKES - any chance of getting new housing? I would think being stuck in 1950s housing is hurting the Greeks.

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by ClioGirl06

Really I'm not trying to get all defensive. No need to tell me to chill out. I'm not simply speaking of things I've heard in this thread, but bits and pieces of other gc threads, things I've heard elsewhere, etc.

Herein lies the problem. You are trying to correct all these pasts wrongs by over-reacting to perceived slights in this particular thread. That would be the "chip on your shoulder" I referred to earlier. Since we don't know about the other "bits and pieces" or "things I've heard elsewhere", your reaction here looks defensive. Apparently the problem here is the definition of a "legitimate GLO". Had you shared your criteria of single sex membership and selected membership we might have been able to avoid some useless bickering. Don't assume that because NPC GLOs are proud of their achievements and history that it means they must look down on locals. I'm glad you've found a home and sisterhood that makes you happy.

[ladygreek]

It is funny to me that when someone says they are offended about a post and says why, others jump on the person about being offended instead of just saying "so noted." It sounds like me doth think ye protest too much and feel guilty about the offense.

Just like when we protested about the lack of inclusion of NPHC groups in these "statistics", we were told by some posters every reason why not. But now oldu has become a little more sensitive about it has sought to remedy the offense.

If Clio is offended that is her perception and she has the right to express it. And btw, I, too, get a general impression for GC that locals are considered "less than."

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

It is funny to me that when someone says they are offended about a post and says why, others jump on the person about being offended instead of just saying "so noted." It sounds like me doth think ye protest too much and feel guilty about the offense.

Nope - you can be offended by whatever you like. But if you want to say you are offended by something I posted, it needs to be about my post. Not what you read elsewhere on GC, not on a general feeling you have, not on what others have said IRL. That would be the "chip". Hire a therapist if your issues run that deep.


If Clio is offended that is her perception and she has the right to express it. Yes she does - and if we feel she is hijacking a thread by continuing to whine, we have the right to express that, too.

My overall perception of locals has heretofore been based on the locals on the campuses I attended and worked at. To tell you the truth, none of them have been that impressive. But I know my experience is hardly a representative sample.

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

My overall perception of locals has heretofore been based on the locals on the campuses I attended and worked at. To tell you the truth, none of them have been that impressive. But I know my experience is hardly a representative sample.

Sounds like I stumbled upon the truth.

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

Sounds like I stumbled upon the truth.

Hey, that's my experience. But I've always assumed that because my experience is so limited that it is hardly representative. Therefore, I've tried to keep an open mind, and not tar all locals with the same brush. So slam me for not basing my judgement only on my real life experience.

And I've looked in vain for anyone denying anyone the right to his/her opinion.