NOLA - 2 years later

[Sugar08]

Originally Posted by Kevin

So the government owes them new homes now? Iraq is important for strategic and international reasons which we could delve into in another thread.

Even if I concede that it's stupid to spend $50 billion in Iraq, it's still stupid to spend any money -- one dime on returning New Orleans to a state where it can once again be flooded and destroyed.

You should have just said this in the first place. It seems your true objection isn't to the location of the land NO is sitting on - it's to the "poor people" who wish to live there because it's all they know, and what they love.

Take for example, Malibu, CA, an area poorly planned, subject to wildfires and suffering from crappy irrigation. In '95 there were massive mudslides which destroyed million-dollar homes and blocked the PCH. There were slides again in 97, 98, 01 and 05. Presumably, the government spends plenty of money shoring up the cliffs, yet, down they come time and time again.

Who lives in Malibu? People who can afford to rebuild, and choose to do so because it's home to them.

The idea that our government should just "move them" elsewhere is ludicrous, and something of a slippery slope.

(Now, as far as spending $50 billion in Iraq, that's irrelevant here. And if that's what Congress is willing to give, then so be it. Restricting funding isn't going to help the situation.)

[Kevin]

The difference is -- the people in Malibu pay to live there. The folks in NOLA, as far as I know expect to have the taxpayer foot the bill for them to live in NOLA.

Also, the folks in Malibu tend to have insurance. I don't even think you can buy flood insurance in NOLA.

Rich people have more choices and a higher standard of living than poor people. That's just the way things are in the U.S.

[AlexMack]

Jesus christ Kevin could you be a bigger asshole? I'm thinking no.

The government owes these people their homes because they fucked it up in the goddamn first place and then when the inevitable happened, they fucked up with FEMA. You live in Oklahoma. If your home gets torn apart by a tornado I won't be sympathetic, I'll just think, 'well you shouldn't have lived there in the first place because you know tornadoes happen all the time. You won't get a dime for rebuilding.'

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by AlexMack

The government owes these people their homes because they fucked it up in the goddamn first place and then when the inevitable happened, they fucked up with FEMA.

The government cause a category 5 storm to hit New Orleans? I think FEMA did a terrible job in the initial response, but the local response, etc. were pretty pitiful there as well. Lack of an evacuation and all.

The people there knew the hurricane was coming yet they didn't get the hell out. Most also did not insure their homes against something which was pretty much inevitable. In my opinion, it sucks to be them. They got free trailers to live in, big FEMA checks, etc. Many have gone on and made decent lives for themselves elsewhere, others continue to wallow in squalor after blowing all of their money on plasma tvs. I figure the government has done more than its fair share to bail these folks out. It would be even more inefficient to set the stage for a repeat of this catastrophe (which apparently is what you're arguing in favor of).

You live in Oklahoma. If your home gets torn apart by a tornado I won't be sympathetic, I'll just think, 'well you shouldn't have lived there in the first place because you know tornadoes happen all the time. You won't get a dime for rebuilding.'

You're right. Unless a large area is wiped out, I probably won't get a dime. Typically, tornadoes don't do damage to large areas. They hit a few houses, ruin a few roofs, maybe destroy a few things, that's it. While there are those big F5 tornadoes, they are extremely rare. There are only 2 or 3 of them recorded (ever) and they only affect an area about a mile wide. That's okay though because I am insured. If a tornado hits I'm definitely not going to put myself into the position of relying on the government for anything.

[Sugar08]

Flood insurance is currently (and was pre-Katrina) required in certain zones in New Orleans. However, due to the federal government's (underestimated and incorrect) insurance maps of areas of potential flooding, people who lived outside of these zones didn't bother buying policies.

Landslides aren't covered by homeowner's insurance.

And you're right, rich people do have more options, and that's ok if they're spending money themselves. However, the gov't has spent millions on areas where the rich live. Why not do the same for the poor? I don't think these people simply expect the taxpayer to "foot the bill," because before all this went down, these people were (and some still are) taxpayers.

The only realistic thing the government can do is rebuild, either sooner or later. And it's looking like later.

BTW: Oklahoma received federal assistance in 2003 due to tornadoes.

[AlexMack]

Also Kevin, thanks for saying that my sorority sisters are wasting their time down there helping to rebuild, I'm sure they appreciate it.

And congratulations on your insurance-what if you didn't have any because you didn't have daddy to help you out? Then your home gets wiped by a rare but possible F5 tornado. Then someone says you don't deserve a dime because you should have known and could have moved.

Kevin, a little empathy for these people. Or do they beat that out of you in law school?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Sugar08

Flood insurance is currently (and was pre-Katrina) required in certain zones in New Orleans. However, due to the federal government's (underestimated and incorrect) insurance maps of areas of potential flooding, people who lived outside of these zones didn't bother buying policies.

It's reasonable to rely on government reports when purchasing insurance. If the government were a private entity, they'd be liable. I have no trouble with the government paying to help these folks out. As to the rest? Nope.

Landslides aren't covered by homeowner's insurance.

Didn't know that. I've never had to build my home on a cliff (not too many around here). I imagine the government out there is fine with doing these things as these rich folks probably generate a lot of tax money as well as jobs and other economic growth for the area. Liberals always use the fact that the rich enjoy more benefits from the federal government as a means of justifying "progressive" tax systems. I guess you can always use this as an example to point to.

BTW: Oklahoma received federal assistance in 2003 due to tornadoes.

We also did in 1999. We have had tornadoes every single year though -- damage each year as well. If my house is the only one in my neighborhood to get leveled, I'm out of luck when it comes to FEMA.

[GeekyPenguin]

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, and people who live on flat plains shouldn't act like they are aware of homeowner's insurance policies in places with topography.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by Kevin

So the government owes them new homes now? Iraq is important for strategic and international reasons which we could delve into in another thread.

Even if I concede that it's stupid to spend $50 billion in Iraq, it's still stupid to spend any money -- one dime on returning New Orleans to a state where it can once again be flooded and destroyed.

Well check it Kevin....everytime Florida gets hit good by a hurricane,whihc is fairly often, they can get federal assistance and people go back...so you mean to tell me that people in New Orleans don't deserve the same?

Hell they spent 185 million on the Superdome BUT there are still people there that stayed through the wait for US rescue and still don't have a home....

[Sugar08]

Originally Posted by Kevin

We also did in 1999. We have had tornadoes every single year though -- damage each year as well. If my house is the only one in my neighborhood to get leveled, I'm out of luck when it comes to FEMA.

But you have insurance, so it's ok, right?

The majority of NO citizens didn't have insurance because of the government's erroneous flood zone reports.

[AKA_Monet]

Kevin,

Sweetheart, maybe it is an engineering feat some people have to build it right... To make it right which they should have done in the first place, but did not because back then when the levees were built, some places were built better than other places because of skin color. Let's be honest. Now, it is a different day and age. Natural Disasters are equal opportunity killers. It does not matter WHO you are or what you look like, they come. And when they do, the best we can do is help the helpless become prepared. Might I say it is the Christian thing to do in America.

Should it cost that much for the "sins of the past"? Well, how much is your livelihood and homestead worth to you if you lost EVERYTHING in the land of the free and home of the brave?

I live under 3 volcanoes now. 1 currently active. If the biggest one explodes, there will be mini-Earthquakes for a solid year+ building up in intensity. At least that is what the USGS and volcanologists tell me.

I also live under a wind-storm prone area with 100 mph+ winds that knock big trees over. And, I live under constant deluge of rain, and it snows in the winter. The tiny bit of sunshine I get enthuses me to relish in it and makes this place bearable. I did not choose to live here. But my "heart" is here, I must follow him. Would I trade now?

Hayle no! But, if I lost my house due to a natural disaster, and I did not have the money, I expect my democratically elected government both Feds, State and local to do all they can for me to get me and my family back upon my feet. Especially after I am paying State Farm, USAA, etc. all THAT money for something...

And Earthquake insurance, what a rip. Your house has to blow up due to gas leaks for them to pay... So, if you smell gas, light a match?

And insurances, do not pay for a DMZ in a US city... It is not suppose to be that bad in the US...

But the irony, it is. And if anything that beoytch Hurricane Katrina uncovered the corruption that the entire World saw and they were shocked...

Everyone was and is culpable for that...

Should you and I the taxpayer pay for this? How come some Corporations do not step up? Namely ExxonMobile who owes Lousiana and Mississippi state taxes for their offshore platforms. Hayle BP--they've got money and might pay it. Dubai ports world might pay it as an investment. And you have all these illegal immigrant workers, make their resident countries do a deal--like Citgo--Hugo Chavez wanted to help anyways... The local reconstruction companies could use some benefits.

It just sounds like folks are clueless about restructuring and improvements. They want the same life. The reality is, they will NEVER have the same life. But, what we all can do is get to a BETTER life than before... Promote promise... And realistically, not everyone will have it, but we can dream.

One must understand that we are dealing with a broken people--some folks like my Soror AKA2D has not given up, she works very hard to make it everyday as a teacher. But there are others, that want to fall. Our job, as cheerleaders, it to make sure they keep rising and keep that vision.

Hurricane Katrina may have beayotch slapped the area, but she did not hurt our American resolve.

We, the people, can do better!

[Sugar08]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Well check it Kevin....everytime Florida gets hit good by a hurricane,whihc is fairly often, they can get federal assistance and people go back...so you mean to tell me that people in New Orleans don't deserve the same?

Excellent point... it seems to me that people in FL spend a good chunk of the year evacuating and returning.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by Kevin

The people there knew the hurricane was coming yet they didn't get the hell out. Most also did not insure their homes against something which was pretty much inevitable. In my opinion, it sucks to be them. They got free trailers to live in, big FEMA checks, etc.

really...you mean those death traps that the govt handed out?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...Health_3089858



and most of those people COULDN'T AFFORD the insurance regfardless of thier income

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14456934/



You know, it's so easy to say some of what you say when it isn't you dealing with it.

[Sugar08]

Soror AKA_Monet... I think I ::heart:: you.

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

Kevin,

Sweetheart, maybe it is an engineering feat some people have to build it right... To make it right which they should have done in the first place, but did not because back then when the levees were built, some places were built better than other places because of skin color. Let's be honest. Now, it is a different day and age. Natural Disasters are equal opportunity killers. It does not matter WHO you are or what you look like, they come. And when they do, the best we can do is help the helpless become prepared. Might I say it is the Christian thing to do in America.

Should it cost that much for the "sins of the past"? Well, how much is your livelihood and homestead worth to you if you lost EVERYTHING in the land of the free and home of the brave?

I live under 3 volcanoes now. 1 currently active. If the biggest one explodes, there will be mini-Earthquakes for a solid year+ building up in intensity. At least that is what the USGS and volcanologists tell me.

I also live under a wind-storm prone area with 100 mph+ winds that knock big trees over. And, I live under constant deluge of rain, and it snows in the winter. The tiny bit of sunshine I get enthuses me to relish in it and makes this place bearable. I did not choose to live here. But my "heart" is here, I must follow him. Would I trade now?

Hayle no! But, if I lost my house due to a natural disaster, and I did not have the money, I expect my democratically elected government both Feds, State and local to do all they can for me to get me and my family back upon my feet. Especially after I am paying State Farm, USAA, etc. all THAT money for something...

And Earthquake insurance, what a rip. Your house has to blow up due to gas leaks for them to pay... So, if you smell gas, light a match?

And insurances, do not pay for a DMZ in a US city... It is not suppose to be that bad in the US...

But the irony, it is. And if anything that beoytch Hurricane Katrina uncovered the corruption that the entire World saw and they were shocked...

Everyone was and is culpable for that...

Should you and I the taxpayer pay for this? How come some Corporations do not step up? Namely ExxonMobile who owes Lousiana and Mississippi state taxes for their offshore platforms. Hayle BP--they've got money and might pay it. Dubai ports world might pay it as an investment. And you have all these illegal immigrant workers, make their resident countries do a deal--like Citgo--Hugo Chavez wanted to help anyways... The local reconstruction companies could use some benefits.

It just sounds like folks are clueless about restructuring and improvements. They want the same life. The reality is, they will NEVER have the same life. But, what we all can do is get to a BETTER life than before... Promote promise... And realistically, not everyone will have it, but we can dream.

One must understand that we are dealing with a broken people--some folks like my Soror AKA2D has not given up, she works very hard to make it everyday as a teacher. But there are others, that want to fall. Our job, as cheerleaders, it to make sure they keep rising and keep that vision.

Hurricane Katrina may have beayotch slapped the area, but she did not hurt our American resolve.

We, the people, can do better!

[DaemonSeid]

This sez more about why we need to take the 50 bil. that Bush wants to spend across seas and spend it down there


But much of New Orleans still looks like a wasteland, with businesses shuttered and houses abandoned. Basic services such as schools, libraries, public transportation and childcare are at half their original levels and only two-thirds of the region's licensed hospitals are open. Workers are often scarce. Rents have skyrocketed. Crime is rampant.

Along Mississippi's 70-mile shoreline, harsh economic realities are hampering rebuilding. Cities like Biloxi and Pascagoula are making progress, but areas nearer to Katrina's original landfall look barely improved, with most oceanfront lots still vacant and weedy.

Many projects are hamstrung by the soaring costs of construction and insurance, while federal funding has been slow to flow to cities. Other economic indicators are down — such as population, employment and housing supplies.

The performance by the president and the federal government in the immediate aftermath of the storm severely dented Bush's image as a take-charge leader. So, as on other visits, the president and his team arrived here armed with facts and figures to show how much the Bush administration has done to fulfill his promise 2 1/2 weeks after the storm that "we will do what it takes, we will stay as long as it takes, to help citizens rebuild."



http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070830/...ush_katrina_28