Hip Hop: Poison or Art?

[MzDoctaKay]

Originally Posted by StarFish106

A: Yes. But if you asked me that in 1985, when we recorded Black Codes (From the Underground), I would have said yeah then, too. I can remember being on the bandstand with my brother [Branford] when I was 15 and he was 16, playing some song like "Shake Your Booty," or "Play That Funky Music." And I said to him, "This is the dumbest [stuff] ever. I don't think it can get any stupider than this!"
He looked at me, and deadpanned: "It can, and it will." He was like: "This [stuff] is nothing. You only think this is dumb. Just wait." I'll never forget how he told me that. Ha! If you asked anybody who was black in the 1970s that was listening to Stevie Wonder and Marvin Gaye, if there was going to be a type of music coming along that calls people n*****s - we would never have believed it. No way. After the Civil Rights movement? C'mon! So what he said was truly prophetic. We saw it happen.

This is the best quote I've seen in a long time. I think Marsalis is on-point here. And as I was reading, I thought about how dramatically different hip hop changed from the late 70s to the 80s; then the 80s to the 90s.....and during these first years of the New Millennium. I have every right to be offended - having participated as an "mcee" back in the day ..... when rhyming was "innocent" and the point was to get in a wise crack or a laugh at the expense of the one who dared to battle you. ... or to simply show of your quick-witted skills over a 'hard' beat...

Thanks for posting this interview...I'd like to see it in its entirety - would you please post the link to its source?

[MzDoctaKay]

Originally Posted by dzdst796

Hip Hop is ART!!
All of this disecting going on about the culture and its music is just people with too much time on their hands.
People make conscious decisions to do the things that they do. To blame any genre of music for someone's illegal activities is just using it as a scape goat. If someone commits a crime they were more than likely going to do it regardless of any lyrics they heard in a song.
Just my thoughts. I am from the hip hop generation and I love it.
"Let's Take It Back To The Old School, Let's Take It To Union Square...."

Another Hip Hopper? Tell me: What's in your CD Cartridge right now?

[MzDoctaKay]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Folks also forget that hip hop's origins weren't as socially progressive and intense as people try to make it. The Sugar Hill Gang? Not even rappers and their rhymes were fluff. Hip hop was a call and response party thing--DJs were hip hop and then "emcees" picked up microphones and moved the crowd. All of this happened before Afrika Bambata called it "hip hop" and Kurtis Blow rhymed about the ghetto.

You're absolutely right.... and New Yorkers, although appreciative of the Sugar Hill Gang, often clowned them because the SHG was from New Jersey... and those in the Bronx (NY) felt that the SHG was only able to put on vinyl what the pioneering Bronx and uptown rappers had already been doing for years.....

Be that as it may, in the end we were just happy to hear our art form on the radio station... No one was looking to be paid big money - the fame from being played was enough.

Good point, Chaos.

[MzDoctaKay]

Originally Posted by Little32

Can art emerge from the static, I don't know?

If so, who would be responsible? The rapper? Or the industry machine?

[MzDoctaKay]

Originally Posted by litAKAtor

I think at its inception and in its realest form is art . . . the ability to use words to explain, examine, express one's feelings about their environment over a beat is something that ONLY an artist could do. Hip Hop wasn't embraced by mainstream when it was preaching about teen pregancy, drug infestation, crime in our communities, unemployment, etc. But as soon as the music begins to demoralize and objectify women, it is embraced; as soon as the message is kill a n or N this or n that; as soon as the music lost its message that is when a PORTION of the art form turned into poison . . when we allowed mainstream America to pimp us for a few measly dollars that is when it became poisonous. . .do you think white america as a whole was listening to Tribe or Jungle Brothers or KRS-1 . . NO! But you can bet your butt they are thumping 50 cent, Cash Money, and any other artist that talks about killing, pimping, hoeing, stealing, and the list goes one. People like Naz and Common who speak truth and have not lost their souls to the might dollar are, in my opinion, true hip hop. The others are sell outs who are focused only on green and not concerned with the impact their words have on society and its views of our community. . . .

Wheeeeeeeeeew girl!

*Five Mics and a Thumbs Up For This One!!!*

[litAKAtor]

Originally Posted by MzDoctaKay

Wheeeeeeeeeew girl!

*Five Mics and a Thumbs Up For This One!!!*

LOL! Thanks MzDocta.

[mulattogyrl]

Originally Posted by MzDoctaKay

I believe the same holds true for Old School music (Soul/R&B)......many of the songs from the 60s and 70s had "adult content" - however, it was delivered a little more carefully....or at least as a child, you didn't fully understand the message being conveyed. Earlier days in hip hop may have had the same messages in some of the songs....however, most of them were conveyed much more delicately....or you were so concerned about the party (or the story), you missed the fact that the song was about he and his girl.....

In my opinion, the tide turned during the NWA years for the West.....and the Luke years for the South. I welcome your comments.

I agree, the messages were delivered more carefully. But then again, I'm all grown up now and don't always understand what the gangster rappers are referring to in their songs. Like somewhere in another thread, one of us didn't know what 'Ds' were in a song. My question is this: As far as the negativity in rap music today, is it the fault of the rappers, music industry, etc., or is it really a reflection of what is going on in the streets? The reason I ask this is because like I said, I don't understand some references, but these younger kids sure do, and just like Ms Docta Kay said, when we were young, we didn't understand. So, is that a reflection of how the younger generation is different/growing up too fast, etc., or are lyrics really that much worse? Or maybe a little bit of both?

[StarFish106]

Originally Posted by MzDoctaKay

Thanks for posting this interview...I'd like to see it in its entirety - would you please post the link to its source?

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/e...t/16820808.htm

This will be there for a limited time (so the website says)

[StarFish106]

Originally Posted by mulattogyrl

I agree, the messages were delivered more carefully. But then again, I'm all grown up now and don't always understand what the gangster rappers are referring to in their songs. Like somewhere in another thread, one of us didn't know what 'Ds' were in a song. My question is this: As far as the negativity in rap music today, is it the fault of the rappers, music industry, etc., or is it really a reflection of what is going on in the streets? The reason I ask this is because like I said, I don't understand some references, but these younger kids sure do, and just like Ms Docta Kay said, when we were young, we didn't understand. So, is that a reflection of how the younger generation is different/growing up too fast, etc., or are lyrics really that much worse? Or maybe a little bit of both?

Sometimes I think it is a little of both..Back in the day when they were talking about 'killin' it was mainly killin on the mike and that was it. Your ego was crushed and you picked it up, went home and came up with a new rhyme to battle them with next week and regain your title or claim a new one. Today they mean it as in taking your life and meaning exactly that. Sometimes I wonder if the whole thing of what begat what is the million dollar question. There was always violence on the streets but no one ever talked about it the way rap did. Violence and Sex is all around the children today & in some instances there is nothing to balance it out so it is all one sided. Those that remember back in the day we had different genres (battle rap, conscious rap, fun rap and gangster rap) going on at the same time or at least overlapping. Today you don't have those choices as prevalent and popular as they were in the past and what sells is the violent, sexual rap.

It seems right when gangsta rap took off, all the older indie labels that had the other types of rap got bought out by the bigger labels (Big Beat, Sleeping Bag, Rawkus et.al) So there is the gap in the rap industry because all the big boys want to make $$$. In turn that's what the audience gravitates to. Since everybody and their momma has a record label nowadays it would be nice to see some alternate forms of rap emerge again.

But it all reminds me of a quote from the movie Brown Sugar; "Here at Millenium Records we keep it profitable, if you want to keep it real go to Rawkus" .

And that's the double truth Ruth!!

[MzDoctaKay]

Originally Posted by mulattogyrl

I agree, the messages were delivered more carefully. But then again, I'm all grown up now and don't always understand what the gangster rappers are referring to in their songs. Like somewhere in another thread, one of us didn't know what 'Ds' were in a song. My question is this: As far as the negativity in rap music today, is it the fault of the rappers, music industry, etc., or is it really a reflection of what is going on in the streets? The reason I ask this is because like I said, I don't understand some references, but these younger kids sure do, and just like Ms Docta Kay said, when we were young, we didn't understand. So, is that a reflection of how the younger generation is different/growing up too fast, etc., or are lyrics really that much worse? Or maybe a little bit of both?

Uhmmm soror.... very thought-provoking.

I think for the most part, the older generations were always left in the dark about the street vernacular or the terminology of that day. I was born in 1971, so my teenage years were the 80s. We'd say stuff like, "Def", and "Fresh", and my moms would always ask: What does that mean?? But here's the thing.... you always had two areas of hip hop. You had the UNDERGROUND, that wasn't accepted, endorsed, or ever heard by the mainstream .... and obviously, the MAINSTREAM, that was played on the radio, and some times, managed to cross over. [Today, mainstream isn't defined by crossing over, because all cultures embrace hip hop - only being played on the radio makes it mainstream]. In those days, the FCC would go crazy if certain things were allowed over the airwaves. However, with the relaxing of "rules", and the censorship crusade led by Luke, songs we would've NEVER heard on the radio (back then) and was relegated solely to the Underground, made their way over to the mainstream.....

On the other hand, you tackled another interested point that I had to seriously ponder. ..if you're not a product of the streets, you may not always have a clue about what's going on... I don't know if that's ALWAYS the case... I was raised in suburbia....however, we always knew and understood what was going on in the music of our day. Maybe that's because back in our day, there weren't REAL gang members in the game... who had their own code and vernacular. Now don't get it confused with Gangsta Rap - not all who are involved in gangsta rap are REALLY in gangs.......Again...when I speak of back in the day, I'm speaking about New York.....

I would really like to know what others think...

[dzdst796]

Originally Posted by MzDoctaKay

Another Hip Hopper? Tell me: What's in your CD Cartridge right now?

I actually have Mary J. in my car at the moment, but I bought LL Cool J for the song with J.Lo because of the use of the sample from "Looking for the Perfect Beat". So when I need a little pick me up I play that track.
When I have a message on my phone the song it plays is "Scorpio"-Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five. I can I keep my "Hip-Hopper" pass?

[MzDoctaKay]

Originally Posted by StarFish106

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/e...t/16820808.htm

This will be there for a limited time (so the website says)

Thank you so much for posting...I circulated the link to everyone I know!

[MzDoctaKay]

Originally Posted by dzdst796

I actually have Mary J. in my car at the moment, but I bought LL Cool J for the song with J.Lo because of the use of the sample from "Looking for the Perfect Beat". So when I need a little pick me up I play that track.
When I have a message on my phone the song it plays is "Scorpio"-Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five. I can I keep my "Hip-Hopper" pass?

I was a little shaky when you said J.Lo....but when you mentioned LL....and went all the way back to Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five, I had to give you the All Time Platinum Pass.....

*Handing the Pass to the Soror on my left*

[DSTCHAOS]

So what did you all decide?

<---rockin my Nefertiti earrings and hair stacks. Feeling "funky fresh, dressed to impress, ready to party...."

[MzDoctaKay]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

So what did you all decide?

<---rockin my Nefertiti earrings and hair stacks. Feeling "funky fresh, dressed to impress, ready to party...."

Go 'head girl... you went 1987/1988 on me with that one! LOL

Let's see...... I'm going to go 1985 on you: I'm rocking my braids, my Door-Knocker earrings and gold rope chains.... Lee Jeans with the Name Belt buckle that says, "Lady LaShawn".... hoody sweater, Gucci bag...and B-girl stance on you.... I'm about ready to pop-lock, then break into a windmill.......