Sexual orientation and MS

[Stef the Pef]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

Me three. My daughter has MS and I was like WHAT???!!!!!

Me four--I think my big has MS. One of the big baddies, anyhow.

re: membership selection, though--some of our chapter's best members were gay (not to mention some of our favorite "dagger men"). It's no big deal. And we're even in Texas!

[Kevin]

DUKyleXY:

That's a great list. Thanks for posting it.

That said, it's a common theme for organizations to say that they do not discriminate for certain reasons. In practice, however, we really do. I'm not saying that sexual orientation is or is not something which comes under consideration, but every chapter of every organization is unique in the way they approach these things.

To say that being gay and out would preclude you from many organizations is absolutely accurate. For example, my organization asks that voting members in the MS process consider whether the potential initiate is a man of high moral character. His sexual orientation in the minds of many brothers might play into that although, accurately, our High Council has pointed out that sexual orientation does not automatically preclude membership.

The bottom line is that while most chapters and organizations do not outwardly discriminate, the MS process is almost always performed behind closed doors under absolute secrecy. No member is required to reveal why or why not he votes the way he does in many cases.

One side of me wants to proclaim that it shouldn't be a big deal. The other side says that the people voting are 19-21 year old kids who are sometimes going to be very prejudiced for whatever reason. A gay/out potential initiate needs to bear that in mind and not have unreasonable expectations.

That said, I would highly discourage someone from keeping that part of his life secret. If you can't get into your organization as the real you, its' probably not for you.

[kddani]

Originally Posted by jessXIca

In this context, it is an extremely unfortunate acronym for Membership Selection that only AlphaFrog seems to use.

Not that you'll usually see me sticking up for AlphaFrog, but this is a fairly common GC acronym, particularly used in the rush forum.

[SWTXBelle]

I have a sister who I highly suspect is gay. But it really never was an issue - hey, your sex life is your business, not mine. She is a whole person, not her sexual orientation. Were she to tell me she is gay, it really wouldn't make any difference to how I feel about her. The vows we took bind us as sisters - she is my sister, no matter who she loves romantically.
Back to the original question - Gamma Phi Beta has never had discriminatory membership clauses. I don't see any need to add to what has worked for us for 130+ years. Every chapter is free to select members as long as they meet our membership standards - none of which concern sexuality.

[RU OX Alum]

i would be upset if a brother was gay and didn't tell anyone. Being open is cool, but there are not supposed to be secrets between brothers.

[Low C Sharp]

To me, they stick out like a sore thumb.

Well, the ones that you notice stick out like sore thumbs.

But how would you know whether there are substantial numbers of gay men in your state who can "pass"? Unless they come out to you -- and based on what you've said, they would have to be crazy to come out to you -- how would you ever know? Only those of us they come out to privately realize just how prevalent they are, even in the most conservative churches, towns, and schools.

I won't go so far as to say that there are definitely gay men in your chapter, because I don't know how big your chapter is or whether you are so openly hostile that private gay men choose to stay away. But I feel very comfortable saying that you know gay men who you do not know are gay. The more traditional your social circle is, the more certain I am of that.

And to take it a step farther, why should any of us need to know?

Well, I certainly hope that my close friends would trust me enough to tell me. I understand why it might take time, but I need my friends to have faith in me in order to have a true and deep friendship.
________
GLASS BUBBLERS

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by Low C Sharp

Well, the ones that you notice stick out like sore thumbs.

But how would you know whether there are substantial numbers of gay men in your state who can "pass"? Unless they come out to you -- and based on what you've said, they would have to be crazy to come out to you -- how would you ever know? Only those of us they come out to privately realize just how prevalent they are, even in the most conservative churches, towns, and schools.

I won't go so far as to say that there are definitely gay men in your chapter, because I don't know how big your chapter is or whether you are so openly hostile that private gay men choose to stay away. But I feel very comfortable saying that you know gay men who you do not know are gay. The more traditional your social circle is, the more certain I am of that.

You know, I just really have to disagree with you. I may know of some people that might be, but they aren't people that I would consider close. Close friends, ( quite a few of them) I don't have a doubt in my mind.

.........and I do know gay men who.........are gay. Haha.

[DeltAlum]

Originally Posted by RU OX Alum

i would be upset if a brother was gay and didn't tell anyone. Being open is cool, but there are not supposed to be secrets between brothers.

Maybe, but in the real world there are always secrets between brothers, sisters, siblings, married couples, parents and children, etc.

I think a persons sexual orientation is important to the person and his or her partner (or potential partner) and nobody else.

[Tom Earp]

We had a gay Brother who I was not aware him being gay until after he had graduated. I was an Alum of course.

But he was one of the hardest working Brothers in the Chapter. We still stay in touch as he is still my Fraternal Brother amd a good friend.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by DeltAlum

Maybe, but in the real world there are always secrets between brothers, sisters, siblings, married couples, parents and children, etc.

I think a persons sexual orientation is important to the person and his or her partner (or potential partner) and nobody else.

I just find it hard to believe that you wouldn't be the least bit irritated if you lived with a guy who didn't tell you he was gay...........and then you had to find out about it randomly.

Maybe you would, but it seems like you wouldn't have a problem with it.

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by macallan25

I just find it hard to believe that you wouldn't be the least bit irritated if you lived with a guy who didn't tell you he was gay...........and then you had to find out about it randomly.

Why? You can't catch it by breathing the same air. And if you didn't know, then he obviously was not displaying the "behaviors" you find disgusting.

[RU OX Alum]

Originally Posted by DeltAlum

Maybe, but in the real world there are always secrets between brothers, sisters, siblings, married couples, parents and children, etc.

I think a persons sexual orientation is important to the person and his or her partner (or potential partner) and nobody else.

right, but if we never talk about who we are dating, or whatever....i mean yeah, there are secrets from brothers but in order to be brothers you have to share some secrets

[FloridaTish]

I was reading this thread and it reminded me of one of my good friends who was a PIKE at FSU in the 80's. Ever since I've known him, I knew he was gay and we've talked about whether his homosexuality was an issue in college.

According to him, none of his brothers knew he was gay. They thought he was just a little different because his family was from Charleston.

To this day, that still cracks me up...