Blame the Planes?

[AlphaSigOU]

Originally posted by DeltAlum
Wouldn't that be a half mile high? (5280 ft/2640) Or, are you saying a total of 2640 between the two towers?

Anyway, that makes sense to me as well, but the way the buildings collapsed sure looked like planned implosions. I've heard those explainations, but do think there's some room for doubt.

Total of roughly 2640 feet between the two towers. Structurally, they were designed to collapse that way - many people think that the entire building woulda toppled over like a tree, but that's not the case. I design cell phone towers for a living... they're designed to collapse within the compound area should they go down, except during a hurricane or tornado!

[DeltAlum]

I understand the deal with towers. Our company is the project manager for the proposed new digital TV master tower for the Denver area -- same kind of deal as cell sites, only bigger.

My question about the "implosion" look is regarding the other buildings on the site -- not the two towers themselves.

Anyway, I don't question any theory at this point -- I just haven't read enough to make any kind of decision.

[Deke4life]

Actually, as Dr. Jones notes Building number 7 had minor to moderate fires, Also, In the History of Steel buildings, never has one ever colpapsed due to fire. I would encourage you to read the article and especially Dr. Jones' paper:

Article
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,635160132,00

http://kutv.com/topstories/local_story_314234334.html

Paper: http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html

[RACooper]

Originally posted by Deke4life
Actually, as Dr. Jones notes Building number 7 had minor to moderate fires, Also, In the History of Steel buildings, never has one ever colpapsed due to fire. I would encourage you to read the article and especially Dr. Jones' paper:

I keep seeing people throw around the whole "in the history of steel builindings, never has one collapsed due to fire". Problem is that that isn't true - it ignores history, and the fact that the WTC buildings weren't solely steel (other materials were used). But if you want evidence of steel-frame buildings collapsing due to fire/extreme fire one only has to look at the fate of cities in Germany that were firebombed in WWII (such as Dresden) - the firestorms destroyed many steelframed and reinforced factories or government buildings.

[Deke4life]

Some of those steel frame buildings (In Germany) fell apart due to exposives, but none of them imploded on themselves due to fire.

[Deke4life]

I would strongly envite anyone who hasn't done so already, to read Dr. Jones' paper in its entirety. Its only about 29 pages, and is easily underastandable, even by those who are not Senior Physics Professors.

I would also suggest that the politics of the matter should be left alone until the scientific data is sufficiently considered. In other words, follow the science regardless of what any political implication may exist.

[kddani]

Originally posted by Deke4life
I would strongly envite anyone who hasn't done so already, to read Dr. Jones' paper in its entirety. Its only about 29 pages, and is easily underastandable, even by those who are not Senior Physics Professors.

What's up? Why are you pressing this so much? Do you work for this guy or something? Is he a family member?

[KSigkid]

Originally posted by kddani
What's up? Why are you pressing this so much? Do you work for this guy or something? Is he a family member?

This is the same guy who had the 9-11 conspiracy poll earlier. Pushing an agenda much?

[RACooper]

Originally posted by Deke4life
I would strongly envite anyone who hasn't done so already, to read Dr. Jones' paper in its entirety. Its only about 29 pages, and is easily underastandable, even by those who are not Senior Physics Professors.

I would also suggest that the politics of the matter should be left alone until the scientific data is sufficiently considered. In other words, follow the science regardless of what any political implication may exist.

Well it looks like I stand corrected in the matter of the history of steel buildings collapsing under fire... after some reading I might add - the steel structure in question here deals with the "new" generation of steel consturction (post late 60s). Sorry but I guess I didn't do enough reading into the background of the construction techniques and materials used.....

However I did get a chance to read through the paper, and I did note that the author seems to gloss-over or ignore the various conventional fuel sources in the building - while it does briefly touch on the presence of some diesel tanks, the paper doesn't not explore the possibility that the diesel fuels and such may have been a primary contributing factor in the collapse of the building; particularlly given the fact that there where day storage diesel tanks located on the 2nd, 5th, 7th, and 9th floors in addition to the some 40000 gallons located at ground level and connected by pipes to the day tanks.

Yet another paper dealing with the collapse, specifically pointing out the problem of weaken steel support due to intense sustained heat:
http://irc.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/fulltext/n.../nrcc46279.pdf

[Deke4life]

I encourage discussion of this topic so much because its an important issue, especially given current public policy changes since 911. Having said that, I generally like to keep the politics away from the science of the matter. I appreciate the link dealing with the diesel fuel, but I would like to add that diesel fuel, which is much like jet fuel, burns very weak and at relatively low tempuratures.

[Tom Earp]

Any Steel or Concrete Material will under extreme stress from Fire, will become adulterated. When the stress point is reach, it will come tumbling down becase it weekens the Structure.

Theorys are just, that, Theorys if Why and why not.

Like ass wholes, everyone has one!

[Rudey]

2 Questions:

To the nutjob - Why do you keep posting about this?
To everyone else - Why do you entertain the nutjob?

-Rudey

[hoosier]

Originally posted by Rudey

To everyone else - Why do you entertain the nutjob?

-Rudey

If this suggestion became GC policy and practice, somewhere between 95 and 99% of all posts would disappear. The fun would be gone.

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by hoosier
If this suggestion became GC policy and practice, somewhere between 95 and 99% of all posts would disappear. The fun would be gone.

Gee, for once I think we pretty much agree.

[RACooper]

Originally posted by Rudey
2 Questions:

To the nutjob - Why do you keep posting about this?
To everyone else - Why do you entertain the nutjob?

-Rudey

Which one am I again

But seriosuly... as much as it disturbs me to agree with hoosier "The fun would be gone." if I didn't argue/debate with the 'fringe' every now and then