I Am Not a Costume!

[amIblue?]

DrPhil - What would you think about a nonBlack person who dressed up as a famous Black person (i.e., Michael Jackson) sans black face? In your view, is that problematic or acceptable? Back in the day I knew a bunch of kids who dressed up as Michael a la the Thriller era. It was all about being a fan, not a mockery or stereotype. (You know, red jacket, glove, sunglasses.)

Personally, I think you'd have to be pretty darn unimaginative to come up with "sexy thug," etc. Then again, what do I know about being imaginative...my dad was a football coach, so when I was growing up, I was a football player more often than not because it was easy and all the stuff was readily available.

Clearly, dressing up as a stereotype is offensive, but what if it is intended as a tribute for someone you look up to?

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

...is it also in your opinion ok for Blacks to dress up as thugs?

ETA: I never said that Italian Americans dressing up as guidos is "okay." I said that it is up to Italian Americans, not nonItalians, to battle that amongst eachother.

As for the Blacks and thugs thing, if it is not okay, Black folks will be the ones to battle over that because it is a different topic than whether nonBlacks should dress up as "Black thugs."

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

And if it's not ok for non-Blacks to discuss what Blacks dress up as, how come you get to (yes, I went there ) speak for Italian Americans?

You must be in the wrong thread. I never said that nonBlacks cannot discuss what Blacks dress up as. Discuss all you want to with the understanding that the opinions of nonBlacks will not be the determinant.

This topic is about nonBlacks dressing up as Blacks or some caricature of Blacks, to which I responded that nonBlacks need to leave the dressing up as Blacks to the Black folks. I said the same for nonItalian Americans not dressing up as Italian Americans or caricatures of Italian Americans. If Italian Americans want to dress up as guidos it is completely up to Italian Americans.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by amIblue?

DrPhil - What would you think about a nonBlack person who dressed up as a famous Black person (i.e., Michael Jackson) sans black face? In your view, is that problematic or acceptable?

The bolded is the key. I would deem that acceptable sans Blackface and sans racial identifiers that would cross the line from depicting a famous person to depicting and mocking what that person considers Blackness.

If I ever had the dumb idea to dress up as Marilyn Monroe I would not use whiteface. If people can't figure out who I am with my light voice and the "happy birthday, Mr. President" song, sans the whiteface, I need to say I am Etta James or something.

[ree-Xi]

My eyes aren't that great and increasing the size of the images isn't helping. Is the first one the "vampire culture"? Also, I can't make out the third costume/attributed culture at all.

[amIblue?]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

The bolded is the key. I would deem that acceptable sans Blackface and sans racial identifiers that would cross the line from depicting a famous person to depicting and mocking what that person considers Blackness.

If I ever had the dumb idea to dress up as Marilyn Monroe I would not use whiteface. If people can't figure out who I am with my light voice and the "happy birthday, Mr. President" song, sans the whiteface, I need to say I am Etta James or something.

Thanks for answering!

[agzg]

Originally Posted by ree-Xi

My eyes aren't that great and increasing the size of the images isn't helping. Is the first one the "vampire culture"? Also, I can't make out the third costume/attributed culture at all.

The first one is the Dallas Cowboys cheerleader (who is white) who dressed up as Lil Wayne and did full-on blackface. The tip-off should be that the person holding the picture is a young African American woman.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

If I ever had the dumb idea to dress up as Marilyn Monroe I would not use whiteface. If people can't figure out who I am with my light voice and the "happy birthday, Mr. President" song, sans the whiteface, I need to say I am Etta James or something.

Please, please, please make sure I'm invited to that party!


This whole topic just reinforces my curmudgeonliness: Halloween costumes are supposed to be scary -- ghoulies and ghosties and long-leggedy beasties and things that go bump in the night -- not cute or funny or stupidly-offensive.

Clowns, of course, qualify as scary.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Please, please, please make sure I'm invited to that party!

When I stop disliking Halloween and the idea of costumes, I will let you know. In the meantime:

Originally Posted by MysticCat

This whole topic just reinforces my curmudgeonliness: Halloween costumes are supposed to be scary -- ghoulies and ghosties and long-leggedy beasties and things that go bump in the night -- not cute or funny or stupidly-offensive.

Clowns, of course, qualify as scary.

I agree. That is why I have skipped Halloween since childhood. I won't go on my anti-Halloween rant.

[thetaj]

I'm SO sick of the "sexy" costumes! I'm being Paula Deen this year and I've never been more excited.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I agree. That is why I have skipped Halloween since childhood. I won't go on my anti-Halloween rant.

Oh, I love Halloween. I just want to see it done right.

[IrishLake]

I am a grown ass woman. I do not dress up for Halloween. I do not go to costume parties. If we were invited to one and went, I wouldnt dress up.

On the other hand, my children are going to a YMCA sponsored event tonight, "Safe" trick or treating. My daughter will be a witch, my son Thomas the Train. I apologizes to wiccans and train engineers everywhere who may be offended.

I also find clowns terrifying. I was at a festival last weekend, and there were a bunch of Shriners in one of the parades.... and they all dressed as clowns. Horrifying.

[christiangirl]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

This whole topic just reinforces my curmudgeonliness: Halloween costumes are supposed to be scary -- ghoulies and ghosties and long-leggedy beasties...

"Is that a ghoulie or ghosty or wee student beastie?" Peeves ITY?

Meh I think people get hung up on the whole body paint/face paint issue when (as Phil put it) there are other ways to incorporate racial identifiers that are just as offensive as face paint if not moreso. IIRC the 3rd photo was one of a guy in a sombrero and poncho "dressed as a Mexican." I went to a Halloween party last year and saw a guy in the same outfit, drinking tequila in the corner, and he said "I'm a Mexican." That's offensive because (among many other reasons), he was assuming that poncho+sombrero+tequila = an accurate representation of a Mexican man. If he had been wearing brown paint to tint his skin (he was white), that would have been (or should have been IMO) the least of the concern.

I found the cheerleader's face/body paint to be unnecessary but wasn't personally offended by it. Mostly because she was imitating as one person in his usual attire. If she had put on that same outfit and just said "I'm a Black person for Halloween," the my offense would come from her assumption that Black men are thugs. This would be true whether she painted herself brown or not.

[christiangirl]

Originally Posted by IrishLake

I am a grown ass woman. I do not dress up for Halloween. I do not go to costume parties. If we were invited to one and went, I wouldnt dress up.

Are you saying that all the women on this board who will be venturing to costume parties this weekend are not grown women because we happen to enjoy costumes?

[IrishLake]

Nope, just my personal preference. I think it's a pseudo-holiday for kids.

[SWTXBelle]

I had friends who used to throw Halloween parties with a theme - guests would dress up in something appropriate to the theme. I won the year the theme was detectives - I was Nancy Drew - and the year the theme was aliens - I was Magenta from RHPS. That was grown-assed fun.

And these ARE creepy - http://www.npr.org/blogs/pictureshow...or-david-lynch

WARNING - pictures contain scary clown.