being "chosen"

[thetaj]

Originally Posted by angels&angles

I will preface with the fact that I'm 2 glasses of wine in.

But, southernwhateverwhatever has a point. I was also in "lower" "bad" "whatever" sorority, and there was definitely some "lesser of two evils" going on. Plus, I don't know if my group had the nicest girls around, or the most naive girls around, but there was also some "benefit of the doubt" going around as well. "Okay, yes, this girl is awkward and a little annoying, but SOMEDAY she MIGHT make a great sister. Also she's not overtly rude to us, and that has to count for something, right girls???" (I was always Negative Nancy to counteract these Bright Brendas. Because, you know, someone has to, and I enjoy being mean and judgmental).

I will, however, add that probably 90% of any pledge class was honestly wanted and/or fought for by a majority of the group. And another 5% became beloved and successful members of the chapter after we did, in fact, give them some benefit of the doubt. But there was that 5 (sometimes as little as 3 or 1% as we grew more successful at recruitment) percent. Because sometimes Nationals and/or the school is crawling up your butt about your numbers, and you haven't made quota in years, and you have to decide where the cuts are gonna go. And it's sort of silly to pretend otherwise.

[[Two disclaimers: 1. even the girls in that 10% were always welcomed and loved and not shunned. And as noted, many of them became awesome once they stopped being moronic freshmen. 2. that 5 or 3 or 1 percent I was talking about could be only my own judgmental perception as, like previously mentioned, many of my sisters are much nicer and less judgmental than I am. And that 5 or 3 or 1 percent generally had people to share rooms with, or sit with, or have an apartment with, so maybe I'm just a bitch.]]

THE END.

I like you two glasses of wine in

[Smile_Awhile]

Originally Posted by angels&angles

I will preface with the fact that I'm 2 glasses of wine in.

But, southernwhateverwhatever has a point. I was also in "lower" "bad" "whatever" sorority, and there was definitely some "lesser of two evils" going on. Plus, I don't know if my group had the nicest girls around, or the most naive girls around, but there was also some "benefit of the doubt" going around as well. "Okay, yes, this girl is awkward and a little annoying, but SOMEDAY she MIGHT make a great sister. Also she's not overtly rude to us, and that has to count for something, right girls???" (I was always Negative Nancy to counteract these Bright Brendas. Because, you know, someone has to, and I enjoy being mean and judgmental).

I will, however, add that probably 90% of any pledge class was honestly wanted and/or fought for by a majority of the group. And another 5% became beloved and successful members of the chapter after we did, in fact, give them some benefit of the doubt. But there was that 5 (sometimes as little as 3 or 1% as we grew more successful at recruitment) percent. Because sometimes Nationals and/or the school is crawling up your butt about your numbers, and you haven't made quota in years, and you have to decide where the cuts are gonna go. And it's sort of silly to pretend otherwise.

[[Two disclaimers: 1. even the girls in that 10% were always welcomed and loved and not shunned. And as noted, many of them became awesome once they stopped being moronic freshmen. 2. that 5 or 3 or 1 percent I was talking about could be only my own judgmental perception as, like previously mentioned, many of my sisters are much nicer and less judgmental than I am. And that 5 or 3 or 1 percent generally had people to share rooms with, or sit with, or have an apartment with, so maybe I'm just a bitch.]]

THE END.

Agreed. On every count.

Because there is a lot of pressure to not cut as many because of RFM, chapters who have had much weaker return rates won't cut as many girls. Yes, girls are still cut, but that number is probably smaller than we sometimes would like. Especially if a chapter got burned recently by cutting too many girls, and ended up not making quota.

I've seen it happen, and my school is definitely not SEC, nor is is super competitive.

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by Smile_Awhile

Agreed. On every count.

Because there is a lot of pressure to not cut as many because of RFM, chapters who have had much weaker return rates won't cut as many girls. Yes, girls are still cut, but that number is probably smaller than we sometimes would like. Especially if a chapter got burned recently by cutting too many girls, and ended up not making quota.

I've seen it happen, and my school is definitely not SEC, nor is is super competitive.

But in the not making quota scenario, there is the possibility of snap bidding women (which I know I read happened this fall) or doing COR or COB if not making quota fell into smaller numbers and members can bring women in they already know. For large chapters where paying the bills isn't a problem since not all women can live in not making quota may not be the worst thing if there aren't other factors at play like a large graduating senior class and a group of women studying abroad or doing internships. This may be an opportune time to pick up women members know or even transfer students, the kind of women a colony would select who are around but for whatever reason never joined.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by Smile_Awhile

Agreed. On every count.

Because there is a lot of pressure to not cut as many because of RFM, chapters who have had much weaker return rates won't cut as many girls. Yes, girls are still cut, but that number is probably smaller than we sometimes would like. Especially if a chapter got burned recently by cutting too many girls, and ended up not making quota.

I've seen it happen, and my school is definitely not SEC, nor is is super competitive.

This is true, but I have to ask how many PNM's REALLY don't fit the standards for membership in our organizations? I was in a smaller chapter, and of course we got rid of women with horrible grades, and the woman who keyed a member's car in high school, and things like that, but let's be honest, here, much of what causes a woman to succeed in formal recruitment has little to do with what makes her a great member.

So what if your chapter gets the women who are not as pretty or socially gracious or well-dressed or whatever else? Does that mean they are going to make bad sisters? If you are the small chapter, and you cut them, that could mean it's the end of rush for them. It's not good for them, it's not good for your chapter, and it's not good for the system as a whole.

[KSUViolet06]

Another thought, I think the "invite everyone back" thing is more prevalent in the SEC and other big competitive schools because the pressure to get the numbers is greater.

You have a huge home to fill and expenses to be paid. You NEED more people to do those things.

A chapter who is the smallest at a small commuter school with no sorority housing doesn't really have that pressure.

[Oneperson]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

This is one of those "true of SEC but not necessarily of others" things.

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

Another thought, I think the "invite everyone back" thing is more prevalent in the SEC and other big competitive schools because the pressure to get the numbers is greater.

Woah.
No.
Not true.
Even small SEC chapters with houses don't take everybody.
Even small SEC chapters with houses have standards. Established by their fraternity. Set by themselves.

[aephi alum]

I was a member of the smallest chapter on campus. My chapter has a membership selection process, and for reasons that should be obvious, I won't delve into the specifics - but being female and having a pulse did NOT suffice, and we have rejected women who were not a good fit.

The women we invited to pref through FR were chosen. My chapter currently doesn't participate in FR beyond an introduction in the first round - and I have no doubt that my chapter's current active sisters are choosing their new members with care. Quality, not quantity.

[AOIIalum]

Originally Posted by aephi alum

I was a member of the smallest chapter on campus. My chapter has a membership selection process, and for reasons that should be obvious, I won't delve into the specifics - but being female and having a pulse did NOT suffice, and we have rejected women who were not a good fit.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I think most of you know that I volunteer as a Recruitment specialist for my sorority, and I work with a diverse group of chapters. A few are decades old, traditionally achieve quota/total on their campus during Formal and rarely if ever have an opportunity for CR on their campus. A few are in that middle range, usually achieving q/t during Formal or soon after. A few are younger or not as well established on their campus, perhaps a bit smaller in membership than others, but still go through the same procedures to ensure they bring well-chosen women into their chapter. Like aephi alum says, just being female and showing up is not enough to get a bid from any chapter, regardless of chapter size or perceived strength.

[Mevara]

Originally Posted by southernbelle14

One of them being, when someone says something about not liking a chapter they received a bid from (generally because of reputation), claiming that the pnm was "chosen" by the chapter. Obviously I don't know about everyone's campuses, but at mine, the one or two chapters with the worst reputations do not really choose anyone. Granted, there are some girls who get cut from EVERY chapter, but those are few and far between. The "lower" chapters just get stuck with everyone else's leftovers. They get the girls no other chapter wants.

I was in a chapter that was considered bottom but we still always "cut" members. Some people just were not a good fit. Maybe we didn't cut as many PNMs as some of the stronger chapters but we were still choosing our members.

Please don't talk about all the smaller chapters like you know what is going on. Maybe it happened at your chapter but don't generalize it to the rest of us.

[southernbelle14]

Originally Posted by Mevara

I was in a chapter that was considered bottom but we still always "cut" members. Some people just were not a good fit. Maybe we didn't cut as many PNMs as some of the stronger chapters but we were still choosing our members.

Please don't talk about all the smaller chapters like you know what is going on. Maybe it happened at your chapter but don't generalize it to the rest of us.

Well maybe if you read the entire post, including where I said I only know about my campus obviously, you wouldn't have to state this.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by southernbelle14

Well maybe if you read the entire post, including where I said I only know about my campus obviously, you wouldn't have to state this.

You also don't know what your campus does. You only know what your chapter does. BTW, you come off as very insecure and bitter. If your chapter takes everyone that comes through the door, that is your chapters choice. It does not mean that every chapter that is "lower tier" does this. Every NPC organization has a different take on this and handles it differently. If you don't like how your organization handles it, change it from within.

[southernbelle14]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

You also don't know what your campus does. You only know what your chapter does. BTW, you come off as very insecure and bitter. If your chapter takes everyone that comes through the door, that is your chapters choice. It does not mean that every chapter that is "lower tier" does this. Every NPC organization has a different take on this and handles it differently. If you don't like how your organization handles it, change it from within.

Eh, I was annoyed with the system at first, but I got over it. And no, I don't know details about member selection in the other bottom chapter, but my friends in it have talked about how they have to take girls they aren't thrilled with also. So unless they are just lying, I do have some idea.
I don't have a problem with being in a lower chapter. I do have a problem with people acting like lower chapters are just as selective as top ones. Not everyone is technically wanted. Chances are, we will end up loving everyone, but that doesn't mean we really wanted all of them.
Also, my chapter takes grade risks that other chapters can cut because they are more selective. So I'm basing this on things other than just looks and how social they are.

[amIblue?]

Originally Posted by southernbelle14

Well maybe if you read the entire post, including where I said I only know about my campus obviously, you wouldn't have to state this.

That was an incredibly rude way to reiterate your original point.

I'm sorry your chapter operates the way that it does, and I'm also sorry that you don't feel like you can change it. That's got to be an incredibly helpless feeling. However, it only takes a small group to be determined to change things.

Best of luck to you.

[Mevara]

Originally Posted by southernbelle14

Well maybe if you read the entire post, including where I said I only know about my campus obviously, you wouldn't have to state this.

I did read every one of your 9 posts and you are generalizing to the entire greek community nationwide. Here you refer to other chapters in general not just your own.

Originally Posted by southernbelle14;

So why continue pretending that every chapter gets their pick of new members? Greekchat shouldn't be some magical place where real world concepts don't apply. As I've seen written under other circumstances, it isn't unicorns pooping rainbows. In reality, not all chapters are equal.

and again here

Originally Posted by southernbelle14

I am referring in general to chapters that are just as big as every other chapter.

[southernbelle14]

Also, "lower" chapters do make cuts. We cut the painfully awkward girls who can't hold a conversation at all or act appropriately in any social situation. And we cut girls that we KNOW are going to other sororities (not sure about other campuses, but there's a lot of this that goes on here. Girls come knowing where they will be due to family connections, money, etc). But we have to take a lot of girls that we don't really want publicly wearing our letters.