Sorority Expansion

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by 33girl

FWIW I don't think 70 is an out of the question size, I just personally would rather have more options. If that means the chapters are smaller, so be it. What I'm trying to put across to Boy Who Wants More Chicks is that this isn't something that big, bad NPC is doing - or every school across the country would have the same magic number for total.

Oh yeah, I follow. And it's possible that a non-NPC option is actually a pretty good one. But SIUC (greek system included) has bigger issues IMO.

[PKTsaluki]

Ok to help defend my case that I had made this morning.

Yes I am a Fraternity guy who is very active at SIUC's Greek System.

I understand that at most schools but the university is no where close to where it used to be tag lined as a party school. And I mean no where close to being one since both the town and school are really cracking down on underage drinking and unregistered socials.

But the main purpose as to why I think it would be nice to have more NPC chapter at SIUC is to help our Greek Systems competition scale get better and involve more participation from chapters who do not participate because they do not have a partner. We have 1 big all Greek competition every semester First semester Homecoming, and second semester its the Theta Xi Variety Show. It's always the same three fraternities and the sororities.

Our fraternities get extremely discouraged to participate in any event if they do not get teamed up with a sorority and it makes our Greek community look sad in front of the school when the school is now finally giving more support to us since we have not had any real major incident since 2004. With the school's support I feel that the alumni are going to really want to push to bring in there old chapters after this years homecoming since the alumni association is hosting its first ever all Greek reunion for all active and inactive chapters to come back. Along with the university finally getting around to building us a new Greek Row even though it will eventually effect my chapter more.

And to Drolefille. Our Greek system does not have big issues. Asides from the usual idiots in IFC chapters but that's how it is at every school.

[thetygerlily]

PKTsaluki, the best you can do is find out the rationale behind not expanding and do something about it. No guarantees that anything would actually happen, but at least you can hear it from a better source than GC since we were not involved in the decision. I'm sure there is more to it than having a bad day or week. If it is something the sororities on campus - and Greek Life office - feel strongly about, they will want to do something to make their campus more desirable for expansion. Support from the fraternities on campus would certainly be a factor, albeit not the most critical.

Regarding your point about having a better ratio of fraternities & sororities, I totally hear you. My school had roughly twice as many fraternities as sororities. However, due to multiple factors it is very common to have more fraternities than sororities. NPC and IFC/etc have vastly different approaches to expansion, recruitment, and even programming. Policies also tend to differ quite a bit.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by PKTsaluki

Ok to help defend my case that I had made this morning.

Yes I am a Fraternity guy who is very active at SIUC's Greek System.

I understand that at most schools but the university is no where close to where it used to be tag lined as a party school. And I mean no where close to being one since both the town and school are really cracking down on underage drinking and unregistered socials.

But the main purpose as to why I think it would be nice to have more NPC chapter at SIUC is to help our Greek Systems competition scale get better and involve more participation from chapters who do not participate because they do not have a partner. We have 1 big all Greek competition every semester First semester Homecoming, and second semester its the Theta Xi Variety Show. It's always the same three fraternities and the sororities.

Our fraternities get extremely discouraged to participate in any event if they do not get teamed up with a sorority and it makes our Greek community look sad in front of the school when the school is now finally giving more support to us since we have not had any real major incident since 2004. With the school's support I feel that the alumni are going to really want to push to bring in there old chapters after this years homecoming since the alumni association is hosting its first ever all Greek reunion for all active and inactive chapters to come back. Along with the university finally getting around to building us a new Greek Row even though it will eventually effect my chapter more.

And to Drolefille. Our Greek system does not have big issues. Asides from the usual idiots in IFC chapters but that's how it is at every school.

NPC expands in a very specific way. If the school is not expanding right now, there's likely a reason for it. You don't have to like it or agree with it -- it is what it is.

I doubt adding an additional sorority is going to make non-active fraternity members jump into action. Also, it's unlikely that adding another organization is going to make the general student population take notice and "appreciate" GLOs more.

You should likely focus your energy elsewhere.

[ree-Xi]

Originally Posted by irishpipes

5 NPC sororities have chartered and closed at your campus. One closed as recently as 2008. Your panhellenic likely has very valid reasons for declining to expand at this time.

This. What are the circumstances regarding all of these chapters? (Not expecting absolute answers, but it's something to think about.)

Forming a new chapter or recolonizing a closed one takes a lot of effort - lots of time, money, alumni/ae support, I/NHQ support, school interest and student interest. The reasons why so many NPC chapters have left might still be relevant. I don't know. But imagine all the time, money, man-power and resources that were spent maintaining all of those chapters, only to have them close. If you build a house on mud and it sinks, are you going to build another on such unstable ground?

You didn't share the history of NPC chapters on your campus, nor did you expound on what a "bad week" means. We can only guess what that means, so it's hard to agree with you.

[AGDAlum]

Originally Posted by ree-Xi

You didn't share the history of NPC chapters on your campus....

Actually, there IS an extensive history of the SIU Panhellenic. A friend of mine who lives in Carbondale wrote it as a graduate history project. (Her doctoral dissertation is about the early years of NPC.)

I've read both, but I don't remember the details of the SIU history. (Hey, I'm pleased that I remembered that my friend had written it.)

[ree-Xi]

Originally Posted by AGDAlum

Actually, there IS an extensive history of the SIU Panhellenic. A friend of mine who lives in Carbondale wrote it as a graduate history project. (Her doctoral dissertation is about the early years of NPC.)

I've read both, but I don't remember the details of the SIU history. (Hey, I'm pleased that I remembered that my friend had written it.)

We hear from a number of people on here that they are writing a "paper" about Greek life, and never hear from them again. Is your friend's dissertation something for public consumption and available to read online?

My point is that the OP was complaining about the process for bringing a new NPC chapter on campus, without telling us that a handful had closed in recent years.

[Drolefille]

^^^ probably requires university access. Most dissertations are available but you need to have a school account (any school account usually).

[Cruise4fun]

I am alumnae of SIU. Chapter total is at 70 becuase the current housing situation requires approx. 40 women to live in the house. If chapter total was lower, the organizations would not be able to afford the houses. The new housing that is supposed to be built may be in the 25 range (with some small group townhouses), but plans are still in the works. I went to help with formal recruitment in Fall 2007. Quota was 6. I know numbers have been higher, but there needs to be stability before growth.

In 2009, one organization went under a reorganinztion by their HQ. Around the same time, another organiztion tried to recolonize.

[violetpretty]

As someone who has served on my campus Panhellenic Association's Extension Exploration Committee, allow me to educate you on the process of NPC extension.

When campus Panhellenic membership numbers increase, Panhellenic will form a committee to research the possibility of extension or raising total. This will be composed of members from the local chapters. They look at historical recruitment numbers, recent extensions at peer campuses, and consider what they see as an ideal chapter size on their campus. The committee presents to the campus Panhellenic, and the delegates vote on whether to open for extension.

If the campus Panhellenic votes in favor of extension, NPC groups will visit campus and submit binders of information if interested. They may withdraw their interest if after visiting they are no longer interested. Of the interested groups, the campus Panhellenic will select 2-4 groups to present, and then the delegates will vote on which groups will be invited to extend.

NPC doesn't have the power to tell a group that they can't colonize at a university if it's what the campus Panhellenic and the specific NPC group both want. NPC (or possibly individual NPC groups, since you don't have the full story) visited campus and determined extension was not viable. Either SIUC Panhellenic voted no on extension or no NPC groups are interested in colonizing. This brings me to the main point...

NPC groups do not want to set a chapter up to fail. If there is no interest for another NPC sorority at the current total, it's not going to happen. NPC groups like all groups on a campus to be about the same size. It's quite possible that the Panhellenic groups like having 70 members each, and that there is no evidence (ie recruitment numbers rising every year) that there is interest to support another 70-member chapter.

Look at the thread about the year's extensions and closures. NPC groups have far fewer closures than NIC groups. I wouldn't want my chapter to be one of those flashes in the pan, part of the boom and bust cycle of chartering. I am glad adding another chapter requires a 2/3 majority of existing NPC groups.

Re: Homecoming, my school has 14 PHA sororities and low 20s-ish IFC fraternities. Every fraternity gets matched with a sorority for Homecoming and Greek Week. Say there are 21 fraternities. Since membership sizes vary, the largest 7 are paired with a sorority. The next 7 (medium size) are paired with one of the remaining 7 (smallest), and then paired with a sorority. Perhaps SIUC could match fraternities with each other (based on size) to allow all to be matched with a sorority.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Cruise4fun

I am alumnae of SIU. Chapter total is at 70 becuase the current housing situation requires approx. 40 women to live in the house. If chapter total was lower, the organizations would not be able to afford the houses. The new housing that is supposed to be built may be in the 25 range (with some small group townhouses), but plans are still in the works. I went to help with formal recruitment in Fall 2007. Quota was 6. I know numbers have been higher, but there needs to be stability before growth.

In 2009, one organization went under a reorganinztion by their HQ. Around the same time, another organiztion tried to recolonize.

Thanks, that provides a LOT of insight into the system and sounds like a good reason not to bring another group on for the next year or so.

Is there just not a lot of Greek interest among women at SIUC?

[Cruise4fun]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Thanks, that provides a LOT of insight into the system and sounds like a good reason not to bring another group on for the next year or so.

Is there just not a lot of Greek interest among women at SIUC?

There are several things:

1. My impression is there is too much apathy on campus. Lots of followers with not enough leaders. When I last visited the PC officers and Gamma Chis thought just putting up fliers was enough to advertise recruitment. Quota was about 18 the semester I joined and increased every year I was there. Plus there were 5 chapters not 3. I remember initation for 28 women my senior year. Total went from 65 to 75 in those years.
2. The houses aren't exactly a step of from dorms. The houses are glorified military barracks. They were orginally built as temporary housing and 50 years later are just being torn down.
3. In the past there hasn't been Panhellenic unity. Pick on the smallest. Problem with that is somebody always has to be on the bottom. I really believe a strong unified Panhellenic makes each individual chapter stronger.
4. Chapters have issues with retention and freshman aren't in any hurry to join. It is well known you can usually join anytime with COB because Total hasn't been adjusted well to work with current interest
5. Three of the biggest fraternities have left since 2000 with risk management issues. One will never be allowed back. Several medium and smaller fraternities have fell off.

[ree-Xi]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

^^^ probably requires university access. Most dissertations are available but you need to have a school account (any school account usually).

A dissertation on the early years of the NPC would be a great read!

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Cruise4fun

There are several things:

1. My impression is there is too much apathy on campus. Lots of followers with not enough leaders. When I last visited the PC officers and Gamma Chis thought just putting up fliers was enough to advertise recruitment. Quota was about 18 the semester I joined and increased every year I was there. Plus there were 5 chapters not 3. I remember initation for 28 women my senior year. Total went from 65 to 75 in those years.
2. The houses aren't exactly a step of from dorms. The houses are glorified military barracks. They were orginally built as temporary housing and 50 years later are just being torn down.
3. In the past there hasn't been Panhellenic unity. Pick on the smallest. Problem with that is somebody always has to be on the bottom. I really believe a strong unified Panhellenic makes each individual chapter stronger.
4. Chapters have issues with retention and freshman aren't in any hurry to join. It is well known you can usually join anytime with COB because Total hasn't been adjusted well to work with current interest
5. Three of the biggest fraternities have left since 2000 with risk management issues. One will never be allowed back. Several medium and smaller fraternities have fell off.

Thanks, that was very informative!

Originally Posted by ree-Xi

A dissertation on the early years of the NPC would be a great read!

I can try and browse and see what I can find.

[ree-Xi]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I can try and browse and see what I can find.

Why, thank you!!