Obama's bow to the Saudi King

[PeppyGPhiB]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

If that's the case, he should be reprimanded in some way. However, I don't have a problem with an American actually showing some deference and respect.

Reprimanded by who? No one is above the president...that's why people are getting upset. However, I believe the president is making a point of showing that he will not take orders from anyone, let alone a "protocol office," when he believes in doing things a certain way. I don't think that's necessarily right...things he perhaps sees as no big deal, yet become big distractions, could avoid some controversay if he would just listen to some folks' advice.

I did notice the bow - more like a slight bend at the waist rather than a full bow I'd say - when I first saw the video a week or so ago. For a full second I thought, "Hm, that's not really right," but then I dismissed it as not a big deal. Obama is trying to show respect for other world leaders, and greeting them in the way they are probably greeted by others normally is his way of showing them respect. If people watched the whole video, they'd notice that he said a few words in arabic to the saudi king, also. I'd like to see how he greets the Japanese contingent, because even business leaders are bowed to there.

Bottom line: I would rather have a president who attempts to relate to or honor other countries' customs when in their presence than a president who ignores or insults their culture through ignorance. But that's why I find some of the slights of protocol interesting - Obama goes out of his way to acknowledge the Saudi king in a way he's accustomed to, yet Michelle Obama basically hugs the queen like she's an old chum. It just seems like they would know better than that; perhaps they're getting carried away at some of these events, let their guard down, and forget what they've been "trained" to do. They ARE new at this.

[DiamondAthena]

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB

Reprimanded by who? No one is above the president...that's why people are getting upset. However, I believe the president is making a point of showing that he will not take orders from anyone, let alone a "protocol office," when he believes in doing things a certain way. I don't think that's necessarily right...things he perhaps sees as no big deal, yet become big distractions, could avoid some controversay if he would just listen to some folks' advice.

I did notice the bow - more like a slight bend at the waist rather than a full bow I'd say - when I first saw the video a week or so ago. For a full second I thought, "Hm, that's not really right," but then I dismissed it as not a big deal. Obama is trying to show respect for other world leaders, and greeting them in the way they are probably greeted by others normally is his way of showing them respect. If people watched the whole video, they'd notice that he said a few words in arabic to the saudi king, also. I'd like to see how he greets the Japanese contingent, because even business leaders are bowed to there.

Bottom line: I would rather have a president who attempts to relate to or honor other countries' customs when in their presence than a president who ignores or insults their culture through ignorance. But that's why I find some of the slights of protocol interesting - Obama goes out of his way to acknowledge the Saudi king in a way he's accustomed to, yet Michelle Obama basically hugs the queen like she's an old chum. It just seems like they would know better than that; perhaps they're getting carried away at some of these events, let their guard down, and forget what they've been "trained" to do. They ARE new at this.

I agree. Neither "breech" of protocol bothers me so much as the stark contrasts of the two; Obamas bow vs. Michelles hug.... Lets just get on one accord ppl, please.

[PhiGam]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

wait...didnt they do a bow before the Queen last week?

where was the outrage then?

No, he did not bow to the queen. But you somehow don't think that he bowed to the King of SA either...

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by PhiGam

No, he did not bow to the queen. But you somehow don't think that he bowed to the King of SA either...

And I somehow dont think this thread is useful anymore also

PeppyG hit it on the nail

[epchick]

Originally Posted by honeychile

An American citizen does not bow to any foreign leader; the American Flag does not dip to any foreign power.

I have a question, are you being serious with this remark? My sarcasto-meter has been off lately, so I don't know if this is some kind of joke, or if you seriously think that an American citizen shouldn't bow to a foreign leader.

[PhiGam]

Originally Posted by epchick

I have a question, are you being serious with this remark? My sarcasto-meter has been off lately, so I don't know if this is some kind of joke, or if you seriously think that an American citizen shouldn't bow to a foreign leader.

That is actually protocol... while I'm not sure how I feel about ordinary citizens, I definitely don't think that the President should bow to any foreign leader.
To me a bow is a sign of subjection and submission... so bowing to such a horrible man is disgraceful. Saudi Arabia enforces sexist Shari'a laws, if Obama did not bow to the emperor of Japan or the leaders of the EU nations then he definitely shouldn't have bowed to this asshole.

[epchick]

Originally Posted by PhiGam

That is actually protocol... while I'm not sure how I feel about ordinary citizens, I definitely don't think that the President should bow to any foreign leader.
To me a bow is a sign of subjection and submission... so bowing to such a horrible man is disgraceful. Saudi Arabia enforces sexist Shari'a laws, if Obama did not bow to the emperor of Japan or the leaders of the EU nations then he definitely shouldn't have bowed to this asshole.

Well I can understand it being protocol for the President (although there are times that I don't agree with it). I was more concerned cause honeychile said "citizen" and that is what I don't agree with.

[DaemonSeid]

How Leonides Dealt with Submission

[RU OX Alum]

I don't think a bow to the Emperor of Japan would be that out of line.

Don't really feel comfortable with what I saw in that video though.

[PM_Mama00]

Has he been treating other leaders with the same "respect" that he treated Saudi's King? I haven't really read anything about it.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

Has he been treating other leaders with the same "respect" that he treated Saudi's King? I haven't really read anything about it.

Either way, It can't be ruled out that now he doesn't have any foreign relations experience...LOL

[Munchkin03]

We're still talking about this?

[PM_Mama00]

On the morning talk show on our local rock station, they were discussing this. More people were pissed off that the White House lied and said he didn't bow, than the fact that he did.

Some called in with excuses for it. Lol one lady thinks he farted. One thinks that he had bad stomach cramping. Obviously they weren't being serious.

[dekeguy]

Heads of State do not "kow tow" to each other. A "court bow" (quick inclination of the head but not the shoulders) is the way it should be done. It conveys respect while the deep bow suggests subservience, which is why State Department Protocol advises against it.
The President is our Head of State so it was just an unfortunate faux pas. The intricate nature of diplomatic nuances is confusing enough to professional diplomats. The President is really new to this specific aspect of political life so there is a learning curve to be surmounted. I am confident he did not mean to imply subservience so he just needs better briefers to explain the nuances and not just try to tell him what to do.
Some time back I had the opportunity to meet several members of the British Royal Family on a few occasions when I was stationed in the UK. When I was presented to HM the first time I was in uniform so I came to attention and saluted. She nodded in return and seeing my Cavalry insignia asked if I rode. I replied that unfortunately I was serving with an armored cavalry regiment and there were very few opportunities for proper riding. Very informal yet in a very formal setting.
The second time was at Oxford. I was in civilian clothes so I stood straight, gave a quick nod of my head and waited until she extended her hand. Much to my surprise she asked me if I had found the opportunity to ride a bit since our last conversation. I did not see anyone prompt her and I was amazed that she remembered a brief conversation from several months earlier. Then, to finish me off completely, HRH Prince Philip cut in and suggested that perhaps something could be arranged for me to ride "whilst" at Oxford. He then asked if I had my "kit" with me or should he have his equerry organise something suitable.
Needless to say I was amazed and completely snowed. But then again, they have been at the game for many many years and know just how to stay formal while putting everyone at ease.

OK, bottom line. I didn't like seeing the President bow so low to a foreign head of state, but two things occur to me. First, let's cut him some slack, he has a lot to pick up on while running the country in a time of great challenges. Second, he is the President and while I hope he doesn't do this sort of thing all the time I figure he can set the rules since he IS the President.

[PhiGam]

Originally Posted by RU OX Alum

I don't think a bow to the Emperor of Japan would be that out of line.

Don't really feel comfortable with what I saw in that video though.

I agree with you 100%. Because of the history and tradition surrounding the Japanese emperor and the fact that Japan is very friendly and open economically with our country I would also be OK with that.

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

We're still talking about this?

Yes, I know its blasphemous to talk about the all-powerful savior Obama but some of us don't appreciate being lied to or our leader bowing to such a horrible man.