Total Too Low???

[true_blue]

This should have been voted on in a Panehellenic meeting with advisement from the Panhellenic area advisor.

[ASTalumna06]

And it wasn't. This is why I'm lost. And to me, it makes no sense.

Do you think that as the Recruitment Advisor for my chapter, I should contact the Panhellenic Area Advisor myself, if only to ask questions? Or should I talk to the Greek Advisor? Or to our chapter advisor?

???

[true_blue]

I have sent you a PM.

[lauralaylin]

Let me get this straight. You have deferred recruitment, and with total being lowered, there is a group on campus who only has 2 spots for freshmen? That is not good for them.

Did the chapter vote to lower total and not tell you and the other advisers? Or was it changed by the GA without the vote?

The one time I contacted the NPC adviser as an adviser myself (after failing miserably with the GA who was happy to ignore the green book), it back fired. Be careful if you do that. Although if you think she is unaware of all these changes and rules are being broken, you might want to contact the higher ups in your organization to follow up I think.

[PenguinTrax]

Originally Posted by AGDee

The NPC Area Advisor is supposed to be included in the discussion about what Total should be, how to figure it, etc. There are a few different ways that NPC recommends you use from adding up quota from the last 4 years, figuring average chapter size, going with largest chapter size, etc. I would contact the NPC Area Advisor on this one.

I concur...emphatically. I find it hard to believe that the local CPH advisor would approve this move. There is no benefit.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by lauralaylin

Let me get this straight. You have deferred recruitment, and with total being lowered, there is a group on campus who only has 2 spots for freshmen? That is not good for them.

Did the chapter vote to lower total and not tell you and the other advisers? Or was it changed by the GA without the vote?

The one time I contacted the NPC adviser as an adviser myself (after failing miserably with the GA who was happy to ignore the green book), it back fired. Be careful if you do that. Although if you think she is unaware of all these changes and rules are being broken, you might want to contact the higher ups in your organization to follow up I think.

This is what I mean. How is it ok to restrict a chapter to recruiting just 2 girls for next semester? Especially when I don't think they've ever had an unsuccessful spring recruitment. Chances are very good that they'll have much more than 2 girls who are interested.

And from what I understand, the chapters had a vote, although most of the girls in at least 2 of the chapters had no idea that this had changed. I've talked to a few girls in my chapter, and I've emailed a few sisters that I know in another chapter, and they didn't know that this was being decided upon.

From what I can tell from the girls that were there, it was brought up in the last Panhellenic meeting (from a suggestion by the GA), and they voted on it then without discussing it with their individual chapters.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

This is what I mean. How is it ok to restrict a chapter to recruiting just 2 girls for next semester? Especially when I don't think they've ever had an unsuccessful spring recruitment. Chances are very good that they'll have much more than 2 girls who are interested.

And from what I understand, the chapters had a vote, although most of the girls in at least 2 of the chapters had no idea that this had changed. I've talked to a few girls in my chapter, and I've emailed a few sisters that I know in another chapter, and they didn't know that this was being decided upon.

From what I can tell from the girls that were there, it was brought up in the last Panhellenic meeting (from a suggestion by the GA), and they voted on it then without discussing it with their individual chapters.

Actually, at the beginning of the semester, we had a problem with bidding transfer students. Everyone later found out that the GA simply wanted to restrict it, but there was absolutely nothing stating that it couldn’t be done. Through questions and “protest” from each of the chapters, she changed it and allowed us to bid transfers.

Also, she is VERY selective in who she likes. She has a strong bias toward one chapter (the largest one) because of the rivalry her chapter had with them at her alma mater. She LOVES the past Pres of my chapter who graduated last semester, but she clearly does not like one of our other members who is one of our more motivated and active sisters. She asked her and another sister why they were at a small get-together for commuter students on the day before school started. This sister said, “Because I’m a commuter.” She then told the two of them that the event was only for freshmen (it wasn’t) and said they shouldn’t be there. Then she asked them why they were wearing letters (duh!), and they said because they were going to the Greek event that was starting shortly. The GA said they shouldn’t be wearing letters there (why she would say this, I don’t know!). And at one of the Greek Week events this semester, she told this one sister that she couldn’t sign in and earn points for our chapter (the higher percentage of your chapter members who attend events, the more points you get). This sister asked her why, and she said, “You just can’t.” Other people outside of our chapter have even heard that she doesn’t like this one member, and it’s founded on absolutely nothing. And I’ve heard that she is this way with other chapters’ members, also.

No one is thrilled that she's in this position, and I think that she attempts to take control where she can. She is extremely nice to the Presidents of each chapter, she is very nice to me and to other advisors as far as I can tell, but beyond that, she is very selective.

And I highly doubt she contacted any kind of rep from Panhellenic.

There's obviously something else going on here. Set up a meeting with her and the NPC area rep and see if you can hammer something out.

[Kansas City]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

This is what I mean. How is it ok to restrict a chapter to recruiting just 2 girls for next semester? Especially when I don't think they've ever had an unsuccessful spring recruitment. Chances are very good that they'll have much more than 2 girls who are interested.

First of all, I agree that the lowered total should have been advertised and voted on in a more open manner than it apparently was.

This being said, if your campus is moving toward a more structured recruitment, then total will mean a lot more to the chapters now than in the past. The total (30, 40 or whatever) helps to level the playing field between the three groups so that PNMs will be required to look at all of their options when it sounds like before each chapter could take as many people as they wanted no matter what their current membership numbers were. Also, with a more structured recruitment, you will likely be looking at a quota system that helps to maintain this level playing field that the campus total is being set to. Just because you had one semester or year of great growth in Greek interest does not equal a trend and this could be why your campus lowered total to 30.

In my opinion the lower total allows the one smaller chapter to attract more members to keep the numbers amongst all the chapters near the same level. PNMs who might have been closed minded and open to accept only one chapter may now have to expand their horizons a bit more and look at other options if they want to experience Greek life. The chapter that is now allowed to only accept 2 will have the option of being more selective when giving out bids.

With an enforced total number, it is more fair to all chapters because instead of each taking say 10 PNMs (a quota without total?), they are allowed to take the number that will get them to the 30 member total. Over the next few years I believe that you will find that the numbers will work themselves out where all three chapters are taking and loosing (through graduation, etc.) a similar number year after year.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by Kansas City

First of all, I agree that the lowered total should have been advertised and voted on in a more open manner than it apparently was.

This being said, if your campus is moving toward a more structured recruitment, then total will mean a lot more to the chapters now than in the past. The total (30, 40 or whatever) helps to level the playing field between the three groups so that PNMs will be required to look at all of their options when it sounds like before each chapter could take as many people as they wanted no matter what their current membership numbers were. Also, with a more structured recruitment, you will likely be looking at a quota system that helps to maintain this level playing field that the campus total is being set to. Just because you had one semester or year of great growth in Greek interest does not equal a trend and this could be why your campus lowered total to 30.

In my opinion the lower total allows the one smaller chapter to attract more members to keep the numbers amongst all the chapters near the same level. PNMs who might have been closed minded and open to accept only one chapter may now have to expand their horizons a bit more and look at other options if they want to experience Greek life. The chapter that is now allowed to only accept 2 will have the option of being more selective when giving out bids.

With an enforced total number, it is more fair to all chapters because instead of each taking say 10 PNMs (a quota without total?), they are allowed to take the number that will get them to the 30 member total. Over the next few years I believe that you will find that the numbers will work themselves out where all three chapters are taking and loosing (through graduation, etc.) a similar number year after year.

And I would COMPLETELY agree with this... IF they were moving toward more structured recruitment right now. They say they will, but right now, it's not happening. PNMs are not encouraged to visit all of the chapters. They don't understand the "see everyone, find your home" concept, because they generally aren't familiar with the Greek system at all. I'll admit, when I first got involved with Greek life, I never thought that way, either. I was fortunate enough to end up where I belonged, but that doesn't happen with a lot of girls on our campus because they don't even really know that they have other options. That might sound weird, and it's hard to explain, but that's how it is. Because for 90% of the girls on this campus, they don't think "I want to be Greek!" Instead, they are generally asked to attend recruitment events by individual chapters.

I'm afraid that girls will visit only specific chapters, be left out, and not understand why. Greek life isn't a way of life around here, and the rules aren't understood by everyone.

I guess that the best way I can describe it is to relate it to fraternity recruitment.. with a total.

[FSUZeta]

lowering your campus total makes sense to me. none of the chapters are at total, only one(chapter A) has hit total recently and is no longer at total. this makes me think that for your campus, right now, total is too high. it also makes no sense to bring another sorority on board, until all the chapters are at (or very near)total and stay at total for several semesters.

if your campus does not change recruitment styles next semester, and there is no set quota, then chapter A will only be able to pledge 2 girls. if they graduate 8 seniors in the spring, then they can fill those spots in the fall when everyone returns to school. if your chapters are not holding informal recruitment in the fall, there is the answer as to why no chapter is at total.

if you are only ever allowed to pledge up to total, at some point in the year all the chapters will be playing catchup. you can never go over total and creat a membership cushion(the # of members above total).

structured recruitment can work for a campus with three sororities. the chapter i advise is on a three sorority campus, with no greek housing. they hold recruitment after classes have been in session for a few weeks, in the fall, and week night parties cannot begin until 9:30, due to night classes. all three chapters pledged quota plus. incidently, we had formal recruitment when there were just two sororities and both chapters pledge quota.

it should be spelled out in the campus recruitment rules when "silence" begins and ends. that would cover when members need to stop wearing things that identify them as members of a sorority and when they can and cannot speak with pnms.

if it is not written down, i would challenge what she says. the three sororities cannot be expected to remember rules if they are not written down. if there are no written recruitment rules, i would suggest that you contact advisors from the other two chapters and together approach the greek life advisor(after you all have met and have a game plan) to work with her, under the guidance of the area panhellenic advisor, to formulate recruitment rules. with the three sororities and their advisors working together, you all can get done what needs to be done.

[FSUZeta]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

And I would COMPLETELY agree with this... IF they were moving toward more structured recruitment right now. They say they will, but right now, it's not happening. PNMs are not encouraged to visit all of the chapters. They don't understand the "see everyone, find your home" concept, because they generally aren't familiar with the Greek system at all. I'll admit, when I first got involved with Greek life, I never thought that way, either. I was fortunate enough to end up where I belonged, but that doesn't happen with a lot of girls on our campus because they don't even really know that they have other options. That might sound weird, and it's hard to explain, but that's how it is. Because for 90% of the girls on this campus, they don't think "I want to be Greek!" Instead, they are generally asked to attend recruitment events by individual chapters.

I'm afraid that girls will visit only specific chapters, be left out, and not understand why. Greek life isn't a way of life around here, and the rules aren't understood by everyone.

I guess that the best way I can describe it is to relate it to fraternity recruitment.. with a total.

but aren't girls visiting specific chapters now, with the current mode of recruitment? with structured recruitment they would at least be expected to visit each chapter at least once(on my campus, they visit each chapter for two nights before any voting is done).

the panhellenic council would carry the brunt of the organizing and dispensing of information about recruitment-which it seems is being shouldered by each chapter right now.

you advisors need to meet asap, to share the info. that you know and to plan a strategy to present to the greek life advisor. you all also need to meet with the gl advisor asap so that you know what is going on and how recruitment will be held in the winter.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

but aren't girls visiting specific chapters now, with the current mode of recruitment? with structured recruitment they would at least be expected to visit each chapter at least once(on my campus, they visit each chapter for two nights before any voting is done).

That's my point. If they changed total AND changed the way they recruit, it might help. But they didn't. So for next semester, they still have informal recruitment and total at 30, making it impossible for that one chapter to get any more than 2 girls.

They are visiting specific chapters (in most cases, just 1) and they aren't exposed to all of them (hence why more structured recruitment would help). If they only visit that chapter that will only allow 2 new members for next semester, then they will REALLY be limiting their options, but they might not even know that. Why would they unless the chapter told them?

[Kansas City]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

And I would COMPLETELY agree with this... IF they were moving toward more structured recruitment right now. They say they will, but right now, it's not happening. PNMs are not encouraged to visit all of the chapters. They don't understand the "see everyone, find your home" concept, because they generally aren't familiar with the Greek system at all. I'll admit, when I first got involved with Greek life, I never thought that way, either. I was fortunate enough to end up where I belonged, but that doesn't happen with a lot of girls on our campus because they don't even really know that they have other options. That might sound weird, and it's hard to explain, but that's how it is. Because for 90% of the girls on this campus, they don't think "I want to be Greek!" Instead, they are generally asked to attend recruitment events by individual chapters.

I'm afraid that girls will visit only specific chapters, be left out, and not understand why. Greek life isn't a way of life around here, and the rules aren't understood by everyone.

I guess that the best way I can describe it is to relate it to fraternity recruitment.. with a total.

I understand but you cannot have it both ways. Either your campus sticks with the way things were or moves toward a change. It could be that your campus is moving to a more formal approach quicker than you anticipate (especially since they apparently left the chapters out of the reducing quota dialogue). The chapters should agree to take the lead and inform the PNMs of the new total during their recruitment events. For example, chapter A explains that they are only allowed to accept 2 new memebers while chapter B can take 6 and chapter C can take 14. I also think that by setting the campus total and sticking to it, you will see an increase in Greek life interest because all sororities are nearly the same size and a more positive Panhellenic spirit because they need to work together in their recruitment efforts.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by Kansas City

they need to work together in their recruitment efforts.

This is all it comes down to. I think it worries me more than anything because there haven't been any major, concrete ideas concerning this.

[Kansas City]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

This is all it comes down to. I think it worries me more than anything because there haven't been any major, concrete ideas concerning this.

Easier said than done ... it might take a few semesters to get it right but you've got to start somewhere. Good luck.