After Several Years: What Do You Think of the New Release Figures?

[LadyLonghorn]

Up until sometime around the 1980s, recruitment was very different at UT. The way relatives have explained it to me is that PNMs received individual invitations to sorority parties, but only from the sororities who were interested in them. A PNM could start out with invites from all chapters or just one or two, depending on how "desirable" the PNM was. They continued to attend the parties of the groups they were interested in joining who invited them back. Most PNMs never even saw the inside of the infamous "Big Six" chapters.

Yes, it was elitist, but in some ways I think it was better because it never gave false hope to PNMs who had absolutely no chance of receiving a bid from a particular chapter. You started out with all the chapters that thought you were a possible fit rather than wasting your time hoping that "lofty" chapter wanted you or you could make an impression in a 20 minute party that will keep them from cutting you and wondering what you did wrong.

With RFM, if you're in a strong and desirable chapter on a competitive campus, you have to have a very good idea about who you are going to invite back for the second round before the first round even begins. There's no other way to eliminate over half of the PNMs after one 20 minute party. People are always going to complain about the recruitment process when it doesn't go their way, no matter what method you use.

[KSUViolet06]

That would never fly today.

I can picture the Entitlement Queen pitching a Veruca-esque fit when 2 invites show up in her mailbox, as opposed to her friends getting like 12.

Or moms spending their daughter's entire senior year basically trying to figure out how you get an invite from The Best Chapter.

Did this work out well for everyone, numbers-wise?

[sydney bristow]

Originally Posted by 33girl

There was a poster on here who said, in effect, that at her (pre-freshman rush) school, people routinely disaffiliated by their junior and definitely senior year, as Greek life was looked on as something you did as an underclassman. To the point that only 25% of her pledge class was left by the time she graduated. I also think it's important to look on WHY people disaffiliate.

This is DEFINITELY the case on my non-deferred campus. Not uncommon at all. These girls sometimes still wear letters/have their org in their activites on facebook/still have it on their resume for potential employers! I have a lot of problems with people quitting an organization that CHOSE THEM just out of boredom or lack of social schedule. Financial reasons I can understand, that situation is just sad.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by sydney bristow

This is DEFINITELY the case on my non-deferred campus. Not uncommon at all. These girls sometimes still wear letters/have their org in their activites on facebook/still have it on their resume for potential employers! I have a lot of problems with people quitting an organization that CHOSE THEM just out of boredom or lack of social schedule. Financial reasons I can understand, that situation is just sad.

Many many times, people want to be able to say they're XYZs and still hang out with XYZs without having to pay dues, paprticipate, etc. Hence why girls terminate their membership and keep that stuff on FB and still refer to girls as their "sisters."

The funny thing about these girls, is that after college, some of them will be the ones claiming that their kids are "legacies." Or they'll email the chapter asking why they didn't get a Homecoming invite or something. Then they get indignant when you tell them that they actually aren't XYZs anymore. lol.

[carnation]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

That would never fly today.
I can picture the Entitlement Queen pitching a Veruca-esque fit when 2 invites show up in her mailbox, as opposed to her friends getting like 12. Or moms spending their daughter's entire senior year basically trying to figure out how you get an invite from The Best Chapter.

Having been born and bred in Texas, I think that no amount of desperate maneuvers (maternal or otherwise) would have snagged an invitation to certain houses. Either the PNM had "it" or she didn't.

[ASTalumna06]

I'm not sure if I'm posing this as a statement, or as more of a question, but...

Maybe the problems with retention (specifically with those who get "bored" and drop later in their college career) have something to do with the size of the chapter.

I was in a very small chapter. While I was active, we never had more than 19 girls. We were all VERY busy. Our chapter website (which hasn't been updated in forever) still has the roster and positions of the active sisters in 2006. Looking over the list, I started to remember how much we really had to do. Girls were holding 1-5 positions a piece. One sister held, over the course of one year: Vice President, Treasurer, Publicity, Alternate Panhellenic Delegate, and Pageant Chair.

But we were all very close. We struggled, but we all worked together to survive. Our chapter actually received many awards at Convention (including the highest one a chapter can receive) and it was the most rewarding experience.

With a chapter of 100-200 sisters (maybe more), I can see how it would be easy to get lost in the mix. Girls can go through 4 years of school and never hold a major position. I don't know this from experience, but in some cases, I would think it might be difficult to stand up, speak out, and actually be heard amongst that many young women. Being one in a sea of faces doesn't cut it for some people, and sometimes they don't realize that until they're drowning in the middle of it.

Or maybe I'm completely off base..

[Low C Sharp]

There was a poster on here who said, in effect, that at her (pre-freshman rush) school, people routinely disaffiliated by their junior and definitely senior year, as Greek life was looked on as something you did as an underclassman. To the point that only 25% of her pledge class was left by the time she graduated.

I'd like to see real data on this too, because the campus I know best (Penn) has deferred recruitment and very poor upperclass retention. Clearly, anecdote won't get us anywhere on this question.
________
1Madonna4U

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Low C Sharp

I'd like to see real data on this too, because the campus I know best (Penn) has deferred recruitment and very poor upperclass retention. Clearly, anecdote won't get us anywhere on this question.

Exactly. I can think about my campus and I know that we had some bigger issues with retention than other chapters at the time. But as quota increased we were less and less able to put more effort into NM retention because there were more NMs in one case than there were actives who were qualified to be Big Sisters. It was freaky! We kept from spiraling down that membership hole and AFAIK we're doing wonderfully there now. Adding a chapter helped keep quota down and made life easier for all of us.

But that was one chapter during one 4 year window. I obviously have no idea how the other chapters managed and I have no way to say that changing recruitment would have made a difference for the better.

But I do think a lot of people here have had ideas that would improve recruitment no matter when it is held. (As well as lessening the pressure on the numbers, but that is all HQs.)

ETA: With the whole seniors not returning thing: We had quite a few nursing and engineering students and they were slammed by senior year if they weren't already. They didn't leave but they didn't have a lot of time for social/philanthropy events.

[ForeverRoses]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

I'm not sure if I'm posing this as a statement, or as more of a question, but...

Maybe the problems with retention (specifically with those who get "bored" and drop later in their college career) have something to do with the size of the chapter.

I was in a very small chapter. While I was active, we never had more than 19 girls. We were all VERY busy. Our chapter website (which hasn't been updated in forever) still has the roster and positions of the active sisters in 2006. Looking over the list, I started to remember how much we really had to do. Girls were holding 1-5 positions a piece. One sister held, over the course of one year: Vice President, Treasurer, Publicity, Alternate Panhellenic Delegate, and Pageant Chair.

But we were all very close. We struggled, but we all worked together to survive. Our chapter actually received many awards at Convention (including the highest one a chapter can receive) and it was the most rewarding experience.

With a chapter of 100-200 sisters (maybe more), I can see how it would be easy to get lost in the mix. Girls can go through 4 years of school and never hold a major position. I don't know this from experience, but in some cases, I would think it might be difficult to stand up, speak out, and actually be heard amongst that many young women. Being one in a sea of faces doesn't cut it for some people, and sometimes they don't realize that until they're drowning in the middle of it.

Or maybe I'm completely off base..

My chapter had ~ 150 members and we didn't have a problem with seniors dropping out. We did have a problem with seniors that PAID but didn't show up for much. And I can honestly say I was one of them. I didn't go back for spirit week (the work week before school & rush starts) because I had a "real" job in an office and couldn't afford to leave a week early. Then I was gone winter quarter because I was doing an internship at a TV station 2 hours from school. When I got back for spring quarter (my final quarter) I had so many life decisions to make that I really didn't think I had time for sorority stuff. Do I regret it? Yes. Would it have mattered if the chapter was smaller? not really. I still saw my little & grandlittle on a regular basis and I still hung out with my group of sister-friends. I just didn't go to (many)chapter meetings or socials.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

I'm not sure if I'm posing this as a statement, or as more of a question, but...

Maybe the problems with retention (specifically with those who get "bored" and drop later in their college career) have something to do with the size of the chapter.

With a chapter of 100-200 sisters (maybe more), I can see how it would be easy to get lost in the mix. Girls can go through 4 years of school and never hold a major position. I don't know this from experience, but in some cases, I would think it might be difficult to stand up, speak out, and actually be heard amongst that many young women. Being one in a sea of faces doesn't cut it for some people, and sometimes they don't realize that until they're drowning in the middle of it.

Or maybe I'm completely off base..

I think that some people who join larger chapters actually WANT to be "just a member." You've got to think about how much these positions entail in larger chapters - rush chair, for instance. You're in charge of motivating and directing 200 girls and a HUGE budget - it really is almost like an adult job. I think that some people who join smaller chapters want to be "just a member" too, but they can only do that to a certain extent.

Originally Posted by Low C Sharp

I'd like to see real data on this too, because the campus I know best (Penn) has deferred recruitment and very poor upperclass retention. Clearly, anecdote won't get us anywhere on this question.

But doesn't Penn have a lot of problems with underground sororities and fraternities? That's an element in the mix that many schools don't have. I'm sure if I saw my friend in an unrecognized group paying half of what I pay and having the same (if not a better) experience, that might make me rethink my membership as well.

[ASTalumna06]

^ Oh, I don't doubt that there are people in both large and small chapters who would like to be "just a number".. trust me, I know.

I'm simply asking if one of the reasons that girls drop is because maybe it doesn't seem "worth it" to them... to pay all that money and to seemingly not have a huge influence on the chapter. Or maybe everyone does.. I don't know. This is why I ask.

[Shellfish]

The underground sorority at Penn hazes openly, though. On the other hand, I suspect that some students at Penn want to be hazed for what they think is a typical Greek experience.

[ASTalumna06]

And whether or not deferred recruitment has an influence on retention rates, I don't know. I'm trying to weigh all of the factors (which could be impossible)

I'm actually curious to see what will happen on my campus this upcoming semester. Panhellenic decided to change to a partially structured type of recruitment. I don't have all of the details yet, but I'm glad they're adding a more formal kind of recruitment. However, I think it would be more beneficial for them if they moved it to the spring. Retention rates for all three chapters dropped last year when they did away with deferred recruitment.

I guess we'll see if the type of recruitment changes anything.. although, I'm not seeing how it would get better.

[KSUViolet06]

I don't think smaller chapters necessarily have better retention rates. Depending on how small the chapter is, every member usually holds a chair (or 2) or an office. Freshmen don't get to "sit back and observe" after initiation and sometimes are asked to take on 2 chairs or an office immediately. As a result, by senior year, that member is burned out.

I also wonder if part of the retention issue is the idea that joining freshman year = best?

I know I'm living in a crazy fantasy world here, but I wonder if things would change if it were more the norm to join maybe in sophomore year?

I say this because I joined in 2nd semester of sophomore year, and by graduation, I wasn't nearly as burned out as the girls my age in chhapters who rushed as freshmen and had been in their chapters all 4 years.

[carnation]

Arkansas went from sophomore rush to 2nd semester freshman rush to pre-freshman rush. There was just too much abuse of the system: dirty rush, you name it. I doubt they'll ever go back for many reasons plus they get more money if they have members for 4 years.

I joined as a junior and wasn't burned out at all unlike some of the others who were seniors in my sorority and others but...I don't think that retention and timing of rush have that much to do with each other. The really strong groups at the big universities I work with don't have much attrition anyway.