Feds to file lawsuit over Arizona immigration law

[starang21]

Originally Posted by WaxOff

English, especially American English, is one of the hardest languages to learn. Ever wonder why we're forced to take 13+ years of it in school? Add in the fact that some people don't have the ability or the discipline to learn a second language, let alone a difficult one. Hell, most people that took all 13+ years of it can't speak or write it properly.

having improper grammar =/= not being able to communicate at all

[starang21]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Everyone forgets that a true democracy protects the minority from the majority and doesn't just equal majority rules.

only if the majority is committing injustice against the minority. not if the minority is acting illegally.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Everyone forgets that a true democracy protects the minority from the majority and doesn't just equal majority rules.

The law protects the rights of people to be here illegally, soak up our public resources and not pay income taxes? Who knew!

As far as the English thing, it's very simple--if you are going to immigrate to a country, you learn the prevalent language or you will justly face the consequences of your actions. Some folks seem to think that it's our government's job to protect us and those who happen to be here illegally from the consequences of their own stupidity. Find that in the Constitution.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by Kevin

The law protects the rights of people to be here illegally, soak up our public resources and not pay income taxes? Who knew!

As far as the English thing, it's very simple--if you are going to immigrate to a country, you learn the prevalent language or you will justly face the consequences of your actions. Some folks seem to think that it's our government's job to protect us and those who happen to be here illegally from the consequences of their own stupidity. Find that in the Constitution.

So you will be punished for not learning a language with no legal standing at all?

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

So you will be punished for not learning a language with no legal standing at all?

What you mean by punishment? IMHO If someone can't get a job in the U.S. because they can't speak English, oh well.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

What you mean by punishment? IMHO If someone can't get a job in the U.S. because they can't speak English, oh well.

See that I can understand depending on the job. If it is a job that requires you to communicate with English speakers, then yes. But the idea of using the fact that somebody doesn't speak English as probable cause that they might be illegal is BS to me.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

See that I can understand depending on the job. If it is a job that requires you to communicate with English speakers, then yes. But the idea of using the fact that somebody doesn't speak English as probable cause that they might be illegal is BS to me.

Not speaking English alone wouldn't hold up as PC, but it could be used in conjunction with other things that lead up to PC.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Such as?

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

Such as?

Other observations or evidence seen by the officer that gives him probable cause to believe the person is or has committed a crime.

I myself can't list direct examples because it's not that simple or clear-cut, we wouldn't need a court system if it was. You have to look at the totality of the circumstances of each arrest.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

Other observations or evidence seen by the officer that gives him probable cause to believe the person is or has committed a crime.

Our point is that the things that some people might consider probable cause would in fact be motivated by racist and classist biases. Therefore making them poor policing methods and violating civil (and human) rights of individuals regardless of their immigration status.

[WaxOff]

Originally Posted by starang21

having improper grammar =/= not being able to communicate at all

No? How many times has a troll or some other member posted something here that was written so horribly that it was unreadable? That sounds like an inability to communicate to me.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by starang21

only if the majority is committing injustice against the minority. not if the minority is acting illegally.

Follow the thread please. Forcing the minority to speak English when it is NOT the official language of this country may sound "right" to the majority but is not what a democracy is all about.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Follow the thread please. Forcing the minority to speak English when it is NOT the official language of this country may sound "right" to the majority but is not what a democracy is all about.

THIS!! It was one thing if English was the official language and required to now. Then I could see using it as a possible probable cause for illegal status.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Follow the thread please. Forcing the minority to speak English when it is NOT the official language of this country may sound "right" to the majority but is not what a democracy is all about.

No one is forcing anything. Just about anything except race can be an aspect of probable cause. In your opinion, this sort of thing might violate someone's civil rights, but what civil rights are you talking about? There is no right to not have the fact that you don't speak English, have ID, (pick your probable cause) not give an officer of the law the right to look into whether you're breaking the law.

[starang21]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

So you will be punished for not learning a language with no legal standing at all?

no, they'll be investigating for "not learning" the language, and punished for being an illegal immigrant.