An interesting read by a U of Michigan Recruitment Chair

[beckymer92]

Navane, yes, I do get what you are saying. The tension between chapter self-autonomy and nat'l oversight is always a real issue. Also, thank you for your reasoned tone.

It's always a gamble trying to craft a class of girls without knowing each in more depth than the limited time that rush allows. There will always be girls that don't live up to expectations. I'm saying that you will not get any more or any fewer duds by prioritizing the pretty ones because we just can't stereotype attractive women with negative traits.

Chapters frequently have specific personalities. Those focusing on academics or high school/camp connections or Jewishness or cheer or athleticism is no different than one focusing on attractiveness. IF there is a nat'l policy (I'm not convinced there is) I understand trying to analyze it but in the end, we have a sorority that does well all over the country.

[Sororitysock]

Originally Posted by beckymer92

My chapter isn't relevant to the conversation and neither is yours nor am I asking if (or saying that) a chapter does/should rush based solely on looks.

I'm saying that rushing based on looks will still net a chapter filled with great women, APhi is doing very well no matter if they are or aren't rushing based on looks alone and we don't know if there is an APhi policy of rushing based on looks alone. I can't be any more clear and really don't have time to continue repeating myself.

Have a seat and shut your mouth, Diane. You're not Greek and never were.

[VioletsAreBlue]

Rather than have some non-yet-forced debate about whether or not attractive members bring additional positive attributes to the sorority table, we can probably boil this down to one simple statement.

Judging a woman's worth first and foremost on her appearance is a sh!tty thing to do.

That is ultimately what this comes down to and ultimately what bothers me most about it. As adults we know and understand that looks and appearance are close to the bottom of the totem pole when it comes to what traits we value in others. It is something we stress to our children, an understanding of human beings we hope they embrace as they grow up. Why is that suddenly checked at the door for sorority membership? By doing so you tap into part of the worst and most vulnerable part of the 18-22 year old psyche.

I don't think this is an on-the-book policy, however I suspect it is a recruitment strategy utilized in certain scenarios, like membership selection during colonization or whatever alpha phi does for chapter reorganization, or at chapters at larger and competitive universities. I doubt they do it with the chapter who don't fit their attractive member standard yet are meeting quota just fine and in positive standing on their campus -- there is really no purpose for shaking things up in those scenarios. But we know it is happening in some chapters, through the leadership consultants and that means that the strategy is embraced to a certain degree at the national level.

[VioletsAreBlue]

I have one last thought - which might earn me a wrist slap - but I think it's one worth sharing.

I see a lot of Alpha Phi's, both here and on another site, who have expressed frustration with the recruitment strategies. This University of Michigan "expose" (for lack of a better word), just sort of blows open the door of what everybody had suspected and whispered about for several years. I'm sorry that your membership has to deal with this - Alpha Phi is a respected and historic organization. It deserves better leadership.

Get involved in your alumnae chapters, volunteer with collegiate chapters, show up at convention and conferences, raise your hand, speak out. Find others who share your concern and band together. Utilize social media - if there is one thing that Alpha Phi excels at acros campuses, it is their social media presence. Real change comes at a grass-roots level.

And there is another way -- and this is where I might get in trouble for the statement, but it's an action, although perhaps more disruptive than people would like. If you hear of a school opening for colonization, call, identify yourself as an alpha phi, and request that they not invite Alpha Phi to present, or to colonize on their campus, and outline your concerns. Think about it - if LSU, Ole Miss, UGA, and Florida had all said "Sorry, not this time" to Alpha Phi, it would have raised a red flag. It would not impact their current chapters or the current membership. But it certainly would have caught the attention of nationals quickly enough.

I admit I say that from the standpoint of not being an alpha phi sister. I'm not sure I'd have the stomach to make such a recommendation on my own GLO.

[PGD-GRAD]

As a fraternity advisor who has assisted with expansions at several campuses, I’ve been very interested in how sorority chapters recruit versus how fraternities do. Mostly we try to get a cross-section of all 4 classes—heavy on freshmen and sophomores of course. And hopefully a mixture of student activities and maybe sports figures in—and we are always hopeful of including legacies.

This summer at our convention, several of our Field Secretaries who had been recruiting for colonies got into a discussion of what they had observed with sorority expansions. It was VERY interesting, and I’m wading in because it sort of applies here. Some groups they said (and I won’t mention them) “took” a current cross-section of the campus, including, for example, girls representing different races, religions, majors and certainly body types. Some other national organizations, they said, DEFINITELY looked for “pretty girls” to start with, even asking some fraternity guys they’d met to please send any “cute freshmen” who hadn’t pledged other houses to their table. From their discussion it seems evident that if such a “recruiting manual” or whatever Michigan used has any use, it’s during a COLONIZATION, where you get to pick EXACTLY the “look” you want the chapter to have.
This whole thread is very interesting btw—but even as a husband and father of two amazing sorority women, it makes me sad.

[beckymer92]

I can't believe what I'm reading. “get involved”, band together and try to force an outcome based on rumors and uncorroborated accusations? SMH. If this isn’t sour grapes, I don’t know what is. Cloaked in moral sounding platitudes, you guys just come across as gossipy in this entire thread, starting with the “mean girls” line. I suggest you lead with hard evidence first before you try to interfere with any group setting up shop anywhere. You guys will just sound crazy and petty otherwise.

I’d love to see actual evidence of these accusations. Please PM me with it. I also suggest you go directly to any source to confirm instead of rounding up support on a greek forum that sounds increasing gossipy.

I’ve been asking my college student to let me share her rush story here but from the sounds of this forum, I think we’ll pass. I understand the point of talking about sorority personalities on a forum such as this one but when a conversation devolves to this, it just makes this forum look gossipy.

[33girl]

I forgot, you know everything.

Originally Posted by beckymer92

Tanglewood: I think you are right. My goddaughter went through rush at UT. We pretty much say the same thing as you. My GD went KD. We learned much about the rush system at Texas in advance. We've heard the stories. I know of the rigid tier system but in reality, all chapters have attractive, smart girls in their ranks. I know all chapters grab girls they know first. This is prolly true for sorority life in general. Every chapter. Every house. At Texas, it's clear which houses try to grab their camp buddies or Hardin girls. For the cheer/pom pnm's, Zeta Tau Alpha automatically keeps them on their return list. It's like they want them all every year! Plenty of girls buck the system, though. Like the cheer and pommies that chose Alpha Phi and Alpha Chi. Or the Highland Park girls that went Alpha Phi because that house already has an HP faction. And the pageant girl that went DG. She probably could have gone Zeta. This shows there is more that binds the chapters together than what separates them. Don't get me wrong. I know the UT system is still highly structured (and that does matter to some people) but, unlike when I was in school, the actives themselves seem to have all kinds of friends from so many other chapters now. It's so nice to see! Like the Theta that is roomies with and hangs out with an ADPi. I just saw the AXD pictures this morning. Such.pretty.girls. The tent talk may still be there at Texas but the system is much more intermixed than PNMs think.

Hoping your daughter will share her story. I'll ask my gd to put hers in writing as well.

Your posts do have some merit though, if you take a drink of wine every time you type “sour grapes.”

[KFKPHIMU]

Originally Posted by beckymer92

I’d love to see actual evidence of these accusations. Please PM me with it. I also suggest you go directly to any source to confirm instead of rounding up support on a greek forum that sounds increasing gossipy.

I don't have evidence to these practices or not, but potentially this is a huge PR issue for Alpha Phi and the Greek system. News does not have to be 100% truthful to get traction these days. Initially, I thought it was completely bogus but there are accounts from people (who seem credible and concerned for THEIR organization) are confirming it.

Your point, it is working for them so what is the problem? For me the problem is as a women, I bring a whole lot more to the table than my looks and drilling me down to a "hot or not" number is down right degrading. As a mother of daughters, please don't even insult my daughters who bring so much more to the table than their looks.

[GreekOne]

Originally Posted by KFKPHIMU

Your point, it is working for them so what is the problem? For me the problem is as a women, I bring a whole lot more to the table than my looks and drilling me down to a "hot or not" number is down right degrading. As a mother of daughters, please don't even insult my daughters who bring so much more to the table than their looks.

And, to this point, at the end of the day, the "hot or not" tier rankings that are driving this approach are being driven by what fraternity men "think" about women. Sororities were founded on principles of strong independent women creating a place to support and protect one another in a hostile male dominated environment. At what point did it become okay to base our value on the men's opinions of whether we are "hot or not".

We are better than that!

[VioletsAreBlue]

Yes, get involved. Is there something wrong with that? Sorority women are encouraged to stay involved for their lifetime, it is not just a collegiate experience. That's why they have alumnae chapters and networks with officer positions. That's why chapters rely on alumnae advisors. That's why alumnae orgs are represented at national conventions, win awards for involvement and activity. I'm surprised you would question something like that, as a member of a GLO, one would think you understand how it works. And yes, if enough people are upset with an organization, its leadership and how it is run, then action leads to change.

These ideas really aren't that complicated.

[beckymer92]

If it’s hard to tell girls apart between “tiers” and if all chapters have quality girls (as has been said over and over on this forum), then if a chapter supposedly rushes for looks, they will get good girls no matter what.

Nobody is boiling down the whole of a pnm (or women in general) to looks, just as chapters that want the cheerleaders or athletes aren’t boiling the totality of a pnm to that particular attribute. There is the (correct) assumption that girls who rush at any school tend to be well put together girls. That’s it.

Girls get dropped or picked because of their fashion sense or level of social skills or GPA or whatever. What’s the difference?

Advocating for interference with new school colonizing based on rumors and allegation?? That’s not only out of line, it’s vindictive. I see a lot of ruffled feathers over Alpha Phi’s success. I’m still waiting on that hard evidence that they ignore everything about a pnm except their looks.

[DeltaEmi88]

Originally Posted by beckymer92

If it’s hard to tell girls apart between “tiers” and if all chapters have quality girls (as has been said over and over on this forum), then if a chapter supposedly rushes for looks, they will get good girls no matter what.

Nobody is boiling down the whole of a pnm (or women in general) to looks, just as chapters that want the cheerleaders or athletes aren’t boiling the totality of a pnm to that particular attribute. There is the (correct) assumption that girls who rush at any school tend to be well put together girls. That’s it.

Girls get dropped or picked because of their fashion sense or level of social skills or GPA or whatever. What’s the difference?

Advocating for interference with new school colonizing based on rumors and allegation?? That’s not only out of line, it’s vindictive. I see a lot of ruffled feathers over Alpha Phi’s success. I’m still waiting on that hard evidence that they ignore everything about a pnm except their looks.

Okay, I've read this entire thread, and I have a few things to add here. I want you to read the above post, because just a few posts back, you also stated the following:

Originally Posted by beckymer92

Rushing for looks is only a problem if you stereotype attractive women as unintelligent, unmotivated, uncaring and unkind.

Me? I'd rather be a member of an org filled with Amy Conley Barretts, Mia Loves, Lolo Joneses, Melania Trumps and Michelle Malkins any day over an org filled with the likes of Madeline Albright and RBG.

These two posts contradict each other in every single way. Furthermore, this post absolutely tears down two intelligent, accomplished women, one of whom happens to be an alumna of AEPhi. "Becky", these two posts demonstrate looking at a PNM's qualities based on their physical appearance, not by their intelligence, character, or any other qualities that define that individual as a person. These posts do not demonstrate how you would see a PNM as an actual person, with feelings, or a personality. These posts simply define how you look at a person's exterior. Sure, there are beautiful women who have equally beautiful personalities and can add so much value to a chapter, but if all you're looking at is a woman's physical beauty, then that chapter will miss out on so much potential greatness.

Originally Posted by bevinpiphi

Looks don't determine the quality of a woman.

Originally Posted by beckymer92

Exactly! Which means there is no causation between rushing for looks and poor outcomes/low-quality members.

I want to challenge you to simply think about what you've written. Your reply to Bev's comment is the biggest whoosh I've seen in a while, and honestly, it's quite disgusting. This reply suggests that chapters who do not rush for looks have poor outcomes and receive low-quality members, when read in the context of the rest of your posts.



However, there's a quote from Sarah Ida Shaw that I find to be so fitting in a time like this, even though it's attributed to Tri Delta's founding. If there's anyone who is struggling with what they're reading right now (just like I am), I hope it brings a little hope. "Let us found a society that shall be kind alike to all and think more of a girl's inner self and character than of her personal appearance."



I have to believe that the founders of each of our organizations would have wanted something better than shallow, looks-based recruitment, because each organization has a value system that is so much deeper than the outer beauty of its members. Outer beauty isn't a negative thing, but it doesn't create a sisterhood, nor does it sustain those bonds throughout the years.

[Sciencewoman]

Could a moderator please close this thread?

I think this has devolved into a discussion of membership selection criteria, which those of us who ARE sorority members know is not an appropriate discussion to have on GreekChat or elsewhere.

There are no sour grapes here -- the sorority members who have posted have reiterated our shared commitment to the values upon which ALL of our organizations were founded, and which we hope will continue.

[PGD-GRAD]

^^^^VERY well said Sciencewoman! You are spot on, as usual; our shared values and beautifully-written historic ideals as members of the Greek community are truly the ties that bind us.

(Oh that we had a “moderator” who could pull the plug on some of the “threads” constantly coming of Washington, DC....)

[AZTheta]

Thank you DeltaEmi88.

"becky" is clearly an APhi official. Her spinning is astonishing but not unexpected. Further, I refer everyone to the Arizona connection to APhi's practices. And I ask that you all step back and consider the much bigger picture for all 26 NPCs. I am very concerned for all of us. This isn't a trivial matter, people. It's ugly and it also speaks to the current political climate. "becky's" definition of "success" (and her harping on sour grapes notwithstanding) is making our founders vomit.