Gamma Phi Beta University of North Dakota Punished for Showing School Pride

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Says the person who lacks even an introductory level understanding of race, ethnicity, and culture.

You are pathetic.

Your constructs of race, ethnicity and culture are entirely artificial as is the amount of deference you think the rest of us should give them.

This isn't about good manners, this is about schools facing serious sanctions if they name their mascots after native Americans. There's a point where it has gone from asking that people be polite and respect each other to forcing your views on other through extortion.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Your constructs of race, ethnicity and culture are entirely artificial....

No.

Originally Posted by Kevin

This isn't about good manners, this is about schools facing serious sanctions if they name their mascots after native Americans. There's a point where it has gone from asking that people be polite and respect each other to forcing your views on other through extortion.

I don't care about this school and sorority. I care about your cluelessness. This isn't about differing opinions. You truly seem clueless.

[pshsx1]

Originally Posted by Kevin

The Sioux isn't a race. It's a tribe or rather a collection of tribes with similar culture.

And it's not as if that was the only example I gave.

Where are the aggrieved Scandinavians?

But Native Americans are a distinctive group of people who, as clemsongirl perfectly stated, have faced hundreds of years of systematic discrimination, denial of opportunity, and cultural erasure.

Originally Posted by Kevin

Your constructs of race, ethnicity and culture are entirely artificial as is the amount of deference you think the rest of us should give them.

This isn't about good manners, this is about schools facing serious sanctions if they name their mascots after native Americans. There's a point where it has gone from asking that people be polite and respect each other to forcing your views on other through extortion.

Originally Posted by Kevin

Not really clueless, I just don't accept your premises as being any more than artificial constructs.

That said, I'm from Oklahoma. I'm surrounded by Native people. They aren't discriminated against at all. In fact, they get free food, healthcare and even stipend checks from their enormously profitable operations which operate behind "sovereign" governments that don't compete on a level playing field with our other businesses.

Really.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by pshsx1

But Native Americans are a distinctive group of people who, as clemsongirl perfectly stated, have faced hundreds of years of systematic discrimination, denial of opportunity, and cultural erasure.

That's hilarious. You probably don't know many native people, then. I'm in OKC. My grandfather was an honorary chieftan of the Sac and Fox tribe. We are awash in Indians and the only difference between them and me is a BIA card. Nearly 1:10 people in Oklahoma are American Indian.

Legally speaking, "Native American" really isn't even a racial categorization. It's a political one.

[clemsongirl]

Originally Posted by Kevin

That's hilarious. You probably don't know many native people, then. I'm in OKC. My grandfather was an honorary chieftan of the Sac and Fox tribe. We are awash in Indians and the only difference between them and me is a BIA card. Nearly 1:10 people in Oklahoma are American Indian.

Legally speaking, "Native American" really isn't even a racial categorization. It's a political one.

There are so many Native Americans in Oklahoma in part because they were forcibly removed from their homelands and relocated there by the American government, or did you fall asleep in history class when they covered The Trail of Tears?

Racial categorizations aren't even truly biological, but sociological and society-based. Italians and Irish used to not be considered "white", but were gradually assimilated into the majority. Every racial categorization is a political one because race has no biological basis, but is assigned by the group with the majority of power in a society.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by clemsongirl

There are so many Native Americans in Oklahoma in part because they were forcibly removed from their homelands and relocated there by the American government, or did you fall asleep in history class when they covered The Trail of Tears?

And not one person alive to day is still being injured by that. I can't even say there was anything wrong with it. It was the 19th century and then and prior to then, other countries conquered other countries and relocated populations. Looking back at my own genealogy, my various ancestors could claim aggrieved status on many occasions. We're hundreds of years removed from those actions though, so it's water under the bridge.

Racial categorizations aren't even truly biological, but sociological and society-based. Italians and Irish used to not be considered "white", but were gradually assimilated into the majority. Every racial categorization is a political one because race has no biological basis, but is assigned by the group with the majority of power in a society.

And around here, Natives have for the most part been fully assimilated. We don't have reservations as such. We have some really wonky jurisdictional rules, but the "Indian land" stuff doesn't really work here.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Kevin

And not one person alive to day is still being injured by that. I can't even say there was anything wrong with it. It was the 19th century and then and prior to then, other countries conquered other countries and relocated populations. Looking back at my own genealogy, my various ancestors could claim aggrieved status on many occasions. We're hundreds of years removed from those actions though, so it's water under the bridge.



And around here, Natives have for the most part been fully assimilated. We don't have reservations as such. We have some really wonky jurisdictional rules, but the "Indian land" stuff doesn't really work here.

Oh yay, the Oppression Game. Always fun.

[pshsx1]

Originally Posted by Kevin

And not one person alive to day is still being injured by that. I can't even say there was anything wrong with it. It was the 19th century and then and prior to then, other countries conquered other countries and relocated populations. Looking back at my own genealogy, my various ancestors could claim aggrieved status on many occasions. We're hundreds of years removed from those actions though, so it's water under the bridge.

You're kidding. You're absolutely kidding. Water under the bridge? REALLY? You really don't think that the negative actions of white people have literally any lasting impact?

I'll remember that everyday since I live in the most segregated city in the country, but it's not a big deal. Water under the bridge.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by pshsx1

You're kidding. You're absolutely kidding. Water under the bridge? REALLY? You really don't think that the negative actions of white people have literally any lasting impact?

Actually, I'm totally over the anti-Irish sentiment in the U.S. and the basic genocide perpetrated upon my people by England. My Germanic and Frankish ancestors are certainly over the servile conditions we lived under with serfdom. Life is good. It's water under the bridge.

There are a few natives alive (not many) with a real axe to grind when their culture and language were denied to them by the Indian schools. Those were done away with some tim ago, however, and I doubt there are many, if any natives who would trade their current way of life an aboriginal one.

[/quote]I'll remember that everyday since I live in the most segregated city in the country, but it's not a big deal. Water under the bridge.[/QUOTE]

It's 2014. Move if you don't like it.

[pshsx1]

Originally Posted by Kevin

That's hilarious. You probably don't know many native people, then. I'm in OKC. My grandfather was an honorary chieftan of the Sac and Fox tribe. We are awash in Indians and the only difference between them and me is a BIA card. Nearly 1:10 people in Oklahoma are American Indian.

Legally speaking, "Native American" really isn't even a racial categorization. It's a political one.

Congrats to Oklahoma. You obviously don't understand anything outside of white privilege. Congrats on missing the entire point of this thread.

[33girl]

Steelers =/= steelworkers. Steeler is a word that does not exist except as the name of the football team. Indian/Redskin/etc is. We also do not and never have used a human figure on helmets or uniforms. The closest we got was that awful Steely McBeam mascot from a few years ago, which was incredibly poorly received and quickly discontinued.

[Cheerio]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Your constructs of race, ethnicity and culture are entirely artificial as is the amount of deference you think the rest of us should give them.

This isn't about good manners, this is about schools facing serious sanctions if they name their mascots after native Americans. There's a point where it has gone from asking that people be polite and respect each other to forcing your views on other through extortion.

Agree with your statement (in red).

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Legally speaking, "Native American" really isn't even a racial categorization. It's a political one.

All racial categorizations can be viewed as political categorizations. Thus is the nature of social construction (pun intended).

Originally Posted by Cheerio

Agree with your statement (in red).

My sincerest condolences to the schools/teams that are unable to use groups of people who have expressed discontent as a mascot. Next thing you know people will be told not to have racially, ethnically, and culturally themed parties.