Pope of Rome to Step Down

[HQWest]

But look at it this way - he gets to help pick his successor, which arguably no pope has really had control over in 600 years.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

And my understanding of the infallibility of the pope is that never in history before JPII did any pope EVER admit to being ill because the pope, being infallible, can't get sick. So he's fine, he's fine, he's fine, he's dead. I will gladly surrender that belief if I was told wrong.

I'm afraid you were told wrong. That sounds like the mixed-up idea of some overly pious (and superstitious) Catholic or of some virulently anti-Catholic Protestant. Either way, it's wrong. Infallible means trustworthy or without error.

Per Benedict XVI: "The Pope is not an oracle; he is infallible in very rare situations, as we know."

And per John XXIII: "I am only infallible if I speak infallibly but I shall never do that, so I am not infallible."

FWIW, I don't have a dog in this fight. I'm Presbyterian, not Catholic, and I don't accept the doctrines of the Petrine primacy or of papal infallibility. That said, I have a great deal of respect for the Bishop of Rome -- both the office and the holder of that office -- and the ministry of unity he can exercise.

[shirley1929]

Originally Posted by Gusteau

I get what you're going for, but I think it's a bit narrow. It reminds me of when we look at the Bid Day Pictures thread and say how "diverse" groups are when their chapters have two or three women of color.

To use your example...But when the president of the chapter is "of color" I think that makes a bigger statement than one or two faces in a group photo.

Originally Posted by Gusteau

Diversity encompasses much more than that, and quite frankly a person of color in the papacy will not likely mean much change in inclusivity in the Church. It's one of many factors, and I wouldn't be a "one issue voter" on that one.

Do you think the Church is exclusive to certain races?

I maintain my very strong desire for a Pope of either African or Hispanic decent.

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by shirley1929

To use your example...But when the president of the chapter is "of color" I think that makes a bigger statement than one or two faces in a group photo.



Do you think the Church is exclusive to certain races?

I maintain my very strong desire for a Pope of either African or Hispanic decent.

Well, let's hope it's not an indecent person of whatever race.

Personally, I hope for the Holy Spirit to guide the cardinals to elect the man who is best able to lead all Catholics of all races.

[Psi U MC Vito]

I don't think it will happen for a long long time, but it would be really interesting if an Eastern Rite Cardinal is elected. Granted the only Eastern Rite Cardinals are the Patriarchs, which I'm surprised that John Paul II didn't try to change.

[PhoenixAzul]

Actually, when he resigns, he will indeed still be a cardinal, but he's over 80, and therefore does not get to sit in the conclave and elect his successor. No cardinals over 80 get to vote.

[SWTXBelle]

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...e_ex_pope.html

[IrishLake]

I echo MC (thank you!), ditto to Belle. I've also never been a fan of Bene16. I'm a JP2 fan all the way. Hard to measure up to him.

My personal favorite is Cardinal Bergoglio from Argentina.

I do not support a North American Cardinal at this time.

I appreciated this article today. http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/...er-had-chance/


"And with your spirit" has been a pain in the ass for me to remember, even a year after the change. (And it wasn't Bene16 changing things, it was an implementation of the correct Latin translations.)

[shirley1929]

Originally Posted by Gusteau

I'm troubled that you would suggest I think the Church is exclusive to certain races.

Originally Posted by Gusteau

Diversity encompasses much more than that, and quite frankly a person of color in the papacy will not likely mean much change in inclusivity in the Church.

Then what did you mean by the 2nd quote? Because that's exactly how I took it? Suggesting there needs to be a "change in inclusivity" means to me that you think that the Church has an exclusivity problem.

Originally Posted by Gusteau

To your first point, I suppose it does make a stronger statement, but being non-white does not automatically qualify one to be the next pope.

I didn't say it did. I just said that I HOPED that the person that is chosen (thus deemed qualified by the Cardinals and through them the Holy Spirit) was non-white.

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...e_ex_pope.html

This was very interesting. Thanks for sharing.

Originally Posted by IrishLake

My personal favorite is Cardinal Bergoglio from Argentina.

I have heard good things about him!

Originally Posted by IrishLake

"And with your spirit" has been a pain in the ass for me to remember, even a year after the change. (And it wasn't Bene16 changing things, it was an implementation of the correct Latin translations.)

I know it wasn't Bene16 per se, but the correction happened under his Papacy, so thus I blame him for all my blunders! "And with your spirit" hasn't been as much of a problem for me as the little one word changes here and there throughout the Mass... "Consubstantial", for one!

[Gusteau]

Originally Posted by shirley1929

Then what did you mean by the 2nd quote? Because that's exactly how I took it? Suggesting there needs to be a "change in inclusivity" means to me that you think that the Church has an exclusivity problem.

Well it does have an exclusivity problem, but that problem is not about race. The LGBT community would be a good example, but that's a personal bias and I'd rather not derail this thread.

[SWTXBelle]

- slight hijack - That's how we've always done it in the Anglican use community so when the "change" happened we were scratching our heads - "Change? What change?".

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by shirley1929

I know it wasn't Bene16 per se, but the correction happened under his Papacy, so thus I blame him for all my blunders! "And with your spirit" hasn't been as much of a problem for me as the little one word changes here and there throughout the Mass... "Consubstantial", for one!

Actually it was John Paul the Second who ordered the revision started, but it wasn't completed for a very long time. Also I sometimes find myself going into Rite I language when I visit a RC, which is similar but has some differences.

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

- slight hijack - That's how we've always done it in the Anglican use community so when the "change" happened we were scratching our heads - "Change? What change?".

Rite Ier

[shirley1929]

Originally Posted by Gusteau

Well it does have an exclusivity problem, but that problem is not about race. The LGBT community would be a good example, but that's a personal bias and I'd rather not derail this thread.

Fair enough, but I was discussing a race/ethnicity issue so when you mentioned how a Pope of non-Anglo race/ethnicity wouldn't change an "exclusivity problem", one would believe you were talking about the Church having an exclusivity problem with regard to race.

Back to your regularly scheduled thread...

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

- slight hijack - That's how we've always done it in the Anglican use community so when the "change" happened we were scratching our heads - "Change? What change?".

This cracks me up - I have attended an Anglican church before and I know exactly what you speak of! Us lame RC's are just now catching up.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by IrishLake

"And with your spirit" has been a pain in the ass for me to remember, even a year after the change.

Originally Posted by shirley1929

"And with your spirit" hasn't been as much of a problem for me as the little one word changes here and there throughout the Mass... "Consubstantial", for one!

Kind of an ecumenical pain as well. One of the benefits of the post-Vatican II era was the cooperation between RC, Anglican (except, as Belle notes, some in the AngloCatholic community, who continued to use older versions) and Protestant liturgical groups that resulted in common texts used by all groups. "And also with you" was one product of that, as was the previous version of the creed -- the one without "consubstantial."

I understand the desire/need for the Latin to be accurately translated, but I do hate that the ecumenical consensus has been lost.

[StealthMode]

What happens if there is no new Pope by Easter?