Sororities and Feminism

[als463]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

I've been thinking a lot about sororities, and how they do or do not support gender equality, and there's really not a lot of good writing out there, so I want to open it up to discussion, and maybe eventually I will write an essay on it.

Obviously, sororities are historically feminist, in that they were one way that women supported on another on male-dominated college campuses, as well as a reaction or counterpart to the formation of fraternities. I think networks of women are still very important, and certainly that's something provided by sororities, but I think that a lot of negative stuff has crept in over the years as well.

The most obvious is the emphasis on appearance, especially during recruitment. I know that some will argue that it's like a job interview, putting your best foot forward, etc., but where this is a problem, from an equality perspective, is all the stuff that women are expected to do that men aren't. Both a male and female PNM are expected, for example, to dress appropriately and be clean and well-groomed. But only the female PNM is expected to wear make-up, go tanning, etc.

Now, I think most people around these parts know that a lot of the big SEC rushes depend on who you know before you ever set foot in the door, but to an outsider, doesn't it seem that you are judged on thirty minutes of conversation? And is the perception a problem, whether or not it is reality? Aren't we then turning off the potential PNM's (PPNM's?) who won't rush for fear of being judged thusly.

I'm also unsure if serenades for social events still exist in a lot of places. They've been eliminated by my alma mater, but basically, women would dress in slutty clothing and go sing to the fraternities in hopes of getting on their social calendar. The men would respond by coming over and singing as well, but the obvious objectification only went on direction.

There's also some internal slut-shaming that I find pretty problematic, like women going to standards for sleeping with too many frat boys. Again, I am of two minds here: on one hand, not all sexual behavior is destructive. On the other, such a pattern of behavior in a 19-year-old *may* indicate a problem, and genuinely lending a sisterly hand can be crucial. I'd probably have to think more on ways to address things like this in a positive manner.

Now, I suppose that everything I've written presupposes that women want gender equality, and I know that's not true, either, but I'd like to think that our organizations should support feminism as best they can.

So, I'm interested in everyone's thoughts. I think this is one facet of a larger topic rolling around in my head, that of how greek organizations remain relevant in a changing world, and what is really our mission in the year 2013.

You know, I've actually had this type of discussion with another sorority friend of mine (a Theta Phi Alpha Alumna who is also a doctoral student). She considers herself to be a feminist and I do not consider myself to be one. I think that, while the idea of sororities began to support women in a male-dominated society, they can be viewed by some as the opposite of a feminist movement. How many young women choose to join because they want to meet their future husband or attend parties in the hopes to be the next Stepford wife? Am I saying that is right? No. Do I believe that every woman who joins is like that? Of course not. I know there are many women out there who are strong and incredible leaders. Those are the women who prove that sororities are a great way to hone their skills. I'm a proud sorority woman--whatever that may mean to various people.

Great topic, DBB.

[FSUZeta]

DeltaBetaBaby: "Now, I think most people around these parts know that a lot of the big SEC rushes depend on who you know before you ever set foot in the door, but to an outsider, doesn't it seem that you are judged on thirty minutes of conversation? And is the perception a problem, whether or not it is reality? Aren't we then turning off the potential PNM's (PPNM's?) who won't rush for fear of being judged thusly.

I had similar experiences with job interviews. The difference is that a PNM will stand a chance of changing any preconceived notions that a recommendation might have given, whereas if whomever reads your resume' and job application is not interested enough to extend you an interview, that is it. You don't have the chance for conversation.

I'm also unsure if serenades for social events still exist in a lot of places. They've been eliminated by my alma mater, but basically, women would dress in slutty clothing and go sing to the fraternities in hopes of getting on their social calendar. The men would respond by coming over and singing as well, but the obvious objectification only went on direction."

At FSU the sororities did not dress slutty when they serenaded. I am not sure if serenades still occur.

Sororities, like anything else, are not going to appeal to everyone. Those that are interested in joining a sorority(and are in the know) will do what is necessary to give themselves an advantage (or at least level the playing field), just as one would when seeking a desired job.I think it is about sisters supporting sisters, which extends to Panhellenic and Pan-Hellenic sisters as well.

[Old_Row]

Originally Posted by als463

You know, I've actually had this type of discussion with another sorority friend of mine (a Theta Phi Alpha Alumna who is also a doctoral student). She considers herself to be a feminist and I do not consider myself to be one. I think that, while the idea of sororities began to support women in a male-dominated society, they can be viewed by some as the opposite of a feminist movement. How many young women choose to join because they want to meet their future husband or attend parties in the hopes to be the next Stepford wife? Am I saying that is right? No. Do I believe that every woman who joins is like that? Of course not. I know there are many women out there who are strong and incredible leaders. Those are the women who prove that sororities are a great way to hone their skills. I'm a proud sorority woman--whatever that may mean to various people.

Great topic, DBB.

What's wrong with having one of the reasons for joining a group be to meet appropriate nice and educated men who might make good husbands? I don't think wanting to be happily married with children makes you less of a woman. Isn't feminism supposed to be about giving women choices to do what they want in life?

[als463]

Originally Posted by Old_Row

What's wrong with having one of the reasons for joining a group be to meet appropriate nice and educated men who might make good husbands? I don't think wanting to be happily married with children makes you less of a woman. Isn't feminism supposed to be about giving women choices to do what they want in life?

OldRow,
I truly agree with you on that one. I never said it was wrong. Personally, I agree that college is a great place to meet your future mate because you both clearly have some things in common like wanting to further your education and (should he be a fraternity man) wanting to be philanthropic. I'm not saying this is bad in any way--so, I hope that's not how my statement came off. What I'm saying is that some people might argue that joining a sorority in order to eventually find a future husband is anything but, being about feminism. I'll admit that when I went to college, I already decided I would not marry a man who did not have a college degree. Does that make me a bad person or someone who wants a man to take care of me? No. That's just my preference.

[peppermint23]

Originally Posted by Old_Row

What's wrong with having one of the reasons for joining a group be to meet appropriate nice and educated men who might make good husbands? I don't think wanting to be happily married with children makes you less of a woman. Isn't feminism supposed to be about giving women choices to do what they want in life?

Well there are different schools of feminist thought, and though I'd say yes in a broad sense, but feminism is also about demystifying women and fighting stereotypes, expectations and gender roles that ultimately harm many -if not all - women.

However I completely agree that no one should be looked down upon for making her own way in the world and being happily married with children. That's a wonderful and rightful choice.

[AGDAlum]

I am a feminist. If GC would let me post a picture on this post it would be this: http://store.feminist.org/thisiswhat...ackte,e-1.aspx
(I have a bunch of stickers with this slogan.)

I'm a member of an NPC group, and the P.E.O. Sisterhood, and the American Association of University Women. "Educated women" is a radical feminist concept, going back to Elena Piscopia (first woman to get a PhD, circa 1678) and, in the U.S. Mary Lyon, Emma Willard, Catharine Beecher, et al.

I read "The Feminine Mystique" when I went through Panhellenic rush/recruitment in September, 1970, and did not then (nor do I now) consider that contradictory or ironic.

I recommend reading "Bound by a Mighty Vow: Sisterhood and Women's Fraternities," by Diana Turk, and "When Everything Changed: the Amazing Journey of American Women, 1960 to the Present," by Gail Collins. (You can borrow both of them from your library. But you knew that already, didn't you?)