Chick-fil-a Support Day and Free Speech

[agzg]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

And as I stated, for me it does.

It just deeply offends me when White gays act like they are the same "type" of minority that they can equate with being Black or Hispanic.

What I see is White gays do a very good job of trying to convince people that just because gays can't get married, then they are a minority that is akin to Blacks with respect to slavery and the after-effects of slavery in this country. I never buy it.

As I stated before, being Black and being gay are not the same thing with respect to being a minority.

But what about the Black gays? Can the Black gays win the Oppression Olympics? What about the wild card, Black transgendered women?

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by agzg

But what about the Black gays? Can the Black gays win the Oppression Olympics? What about the wild card, Black transgendered women?

On a serious note, Black LGBT are a double minority. There are community groups and research about how Black LGBT have double minority statuses. Many feel rejected by the Black community and by the LGBT community.

The Oppression Olympics.

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

I accept that.


I agree with this list.

LOL. You are being strange and random. If you agree with my short list, the point you are making is moot.

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

LOL. You are being strange and random. If you agree with my short list, the point you are making is moot.

Perhaps....


My point is, in terms of minority, the idea that Whites consider themselves a minority is truly laughable to me me. As a group, they exercise more power and influence than anyone else. So I ask them, 'Where is the suffering?'

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

My point is, in terms of minority, the idea that Whites consider themselves a minority is truly laughable to me me. As a group, they exercise more power and influence than anyone else. So I ask them, 'Where is the suffering?'

If you agree with my short list, your posts are moot. You are chasing yourself around for no reason.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

Perhaps....


My point is, in terms of minority, the idea that Whites consider themselves a minority is truly laughable to me me. As a group, they exercise more power and influence than anyone else. So I ask them, 'Where is the suffering?'

This is all a long way of entertaining myself to the point that there's always someone more oppressed than someone else. And it's a good thing to recognize that. But this discussion does not relate (in current terms) to other minorities.

Here are some comparisons I will let fly in a discussion without calling you an asshole and awarding you a gold medal in mental gymnastics at the 2012 GreekChat Oppression Olympics:

1. Discussions relating to gender inequality and pointing out the intersection between race and gender and its effect on gender equality (in fact, I would have agreed with your comment outlining how Black women get a bum wrap had you left out the douchetastic "pointing out someone else's privilege" angle, which, btw, I'm already aware of, thanks - don't forget that you're probably more privileged than a lot of Black women, as well).

1a. This also goes for discussions relating the experience of being a member of the LGBT community AND either a gender minority (the perception of lesbians versus gay men) OR/AND a racial minority and the effect it has on equality, although that can get confusing (what are we discussing now?).

2. Discussions relating to specific policies directed toward different minorities which could be related - "Stop and Frisk" laws in NYC v. "Show us your papers" laws in Arizona.

3. Discussions drawing comparisons between individual actions/memberships and their speech relating to minorities and individual actions that you may take against them (boycotting them, calling them idiots, whatever), but nothing else about any shared or not shared experiences between minorities.

4. Discussions TBD. I'll determine right now that this discussion does not fall under option #3. And I'll tell you why it won't:

DrPhil made a comment calling the LGBT community (if you can call it that - that's like making the comparison that all gender equality advocates are feminists) are a power minority. This is true. You perceived her to be drawing a direct comparison between the LGBT minority and Black or Hispanic Minorities and their experiences as minorities. I said "What." because that was fucking stupid (you noticed there was no question mark, there, right? I wasn't questioning you. I was calling your post irrelevant). You pointed out my privilege to me and engaged in some athletics to point out that you're clearly more oppressed than me. You continue to do so. If White gay men are saying they have it harder than you, TO YOU, you have my full permission to slap them right in the face. But frankly, harping on and on about it makes me think that you have a problem with gay people.

Do you have a problem with gay people?

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by agzg

But frankly, harping on and on about it makes me think that you have a problem with gay people.

Do you have a problem with gay people?

Either that or she's Andre Turner. LOL.

On the real, despite how random sigmadiva is being, what she is saying is nothing new. There has always been this ranking and battle of oppressions. Many Black people were and still are tired of other groups saying that they are oppressed/power minority and using the racial and ethnic dynamics as a comparison. When white homosexuals say "we're just like you," it does attempt to make oppressions the exact same rather than just co-existing. It is as annoying as that thread where the people were comparing their circumstances to that of Blacks.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Either that or she's Andre Turner. LOL.

On the real, despite how random sigmadiva is being, what she is saying is nothing new. There has always been this ranking and battle of oppressions. Many Black people were and still are tired of other groups saying that they are oppressed and using the racial and ethnic dynamics as a comparison. When white homosexuals say "we're just like you," it does attempt to place oppressions the exact same rather than just co-existing. It is as annoying as that thread where the people were comparing their oppression to that of Blacks.

Of course it is. I just find the Oppression Olympics really annoying.

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by agzg

Do you have a problem with gay people?

Kinda, sorta no.

What people do in their lives is their business. But, since homosexuality has been turned into a 'hot button' political issue, it is not unreasonable for people to take sides.

Christianity is very deeply rooted in this country. And, in Christianity homosexuality is seen as sinful, along with other acts. So, if you ask me as a Christian, do I have a problem with gays, then yes I do because it does go against the Bible. I strive to live as close to God's word as possible.

But, I'm also wise enough to recognize that not everyone is a Christian. I'm also wise enough to know that people have the right to their own beliefs even though they differ from mine. So, in that respect, then I say live and let live.

Personally, I'm heterosexual. So for me it is hard to comprehend being attracted to someone of the same sex.

If someone says they are not in support of gay marriage, as marriage defined by the Bible, then they have every right to express that openly in the same way that someone would express the opposite view.

Going back to the original point of this thread - I think if the CEO of CFA was not the CEO, but some random guy, then this would not make news. The reason this made news, IMO, is because this was said by someone who runs a multi-billion dollar company. Gays are seen as a political group that exercises its power and influence (read money). So, the idea of someone offending a political group like that ruffled feathers. Bottom line - money is involved. If money was not involved then I don't think anyone would care. Gay, or not.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

Christianity is very deeply rooted in this country. And, in Christianity homosexuality is seen as sinful, along with other acts. So, if you ask me as a Christian, do I have a problem with gays, then yes I do because it does go against the Bible. I strive to live as close to God's word as possible.

But, I'm also wise enough to recognize that not everyone is a Christian. I'm also wise enough to know that people have the right to their own beliefs even though they differ from mine. So, in that respect, then I say live and let live.

I am also a Christian and I do not consider homosexuality sinful or wrong. I also challenge people who quote the Bible for their stance on homosexuality.

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

Thank you! It just prolonged what I need to do - go wash some dishes!

No, you will not end your random posts with a dish washing flounce.

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I am also a Christian and I do not consider homosexuality sinful or wrong.

And that is your choice. I do.

I also challenge people who quote the Bible for their stance on homosexuality.

Again, that is your choice.

No, you will not end your random posts with a dish washing flounce.

Well, I don't know how your day / week has been, but mine has been full of long hours, so I must go now.

I know from years and years of being on GC with you, this can go on forever and ever. I will have to catch up with this thread again in the morning.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

Kinda, sorta no.

So, yes you do.

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

What people do in their lives is their business. But, since homosexuality has been turned into a 'hot button' political issue, it is not unreasonable for people to take sides.

Christianity is very deeply rooted in this country. And, in Christianity homosexuality is seen as sinful, along with other acts. So, if you ask me as a Christian, do I have a problem with gays, then yes I do because it does go against the Bible. I strive to live as close to God's word as possible.

Yes you do then.

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

But, I'm also wise enough to recognize that not everyone is a Christian. I'm also wise enough to know that people have the right to their own beliefs even though they differ from mine. So, in that respect, then I say live and let live.

Did you know that a lot of gay people are also Christian? Also that the Bible has a lot of definitions of marriage?

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

Personally, I'm heterosexual. So for me it is hard to comprehend being attracted to someone of the same sex.

You've made that quite clear.

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

If someone says they are not in support of gay marriage, as marriage defined by the Bible, then they have every right to express that openly in the same way that someone would express the opposite view.

First, which biblical definition of marriage do you mean, here? I'm quite fond of the Man+Wife+Wife+Wife one. Because Lord knows, taking care of a man (clearly my job as a woman, as is spelled out by the Bible) gets tiring sometimes.

OH WAIT THAT'S NOT LEGAL.

It's interesting, though, right? I mean... the status quo right now is that no gay marriage is federally recognized, and only recognized in some states. Super interesting that someone else's "free speech" won out there. At what point does it leave "free speech" and enter "actively working to keep inequality?" Which donation to anti-LGBT groups would that have been?

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

Going back to the original point of this thread - I think if the CEO of CFA was not the CEO, but some random guy, then this would not make news. The reason this made news, IMO, is because this was said by someone who runs a multi-billion dollar company. Gays are seen as a political group that exercises its power and influence (read money). So, the idea of someone offending a political group like that ruffled feathers. Bottom line - money is involved. If money was not involved then I don't think anyone would care. Gay, or not.

Of course he wouldn't. Random guys on the street are statistically unlikely to have the dollars (and be willing to give them) to fund side projects that help other groups lobby against gay marriage. No one gives a shit what the toothless white dude with a NASCAR hat thinks about Chick-fil-A and "the homosexicals that are threatnin' traditional marriage!" and has to squeeze a nickel so tight the buffalo poops to make ends meet. His one vote doesn't effect change or uphold the status quo. Now, funding groups to mobilize 3 million toothless white dudes with NASCAR hats on (PrettyBoy is going to come in this thread and bitchslap me for the NASCAR references) DOES make a difference.

Gays are not the only power minority that has money. They're certainly not a power majority that has money. Because people who run multi-billion dollar companies sometimes start charities that fund anti-LGBT groups. But it's cool though - because they're always more privileged than someone, right?

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by agzg

So, yes you do.



Yes you do then.



Did you know that a lot of gay people are also Christian? Also that the Bible has a lot of definitions of marriage?





You've made that quite clear.



First, which biblical definition of marriage do you mean, here? I'm quite fond of the Man+Wife+Wife+Wife one. Because Lord knows, taking care of a man (clearly my job as a woman, as is spelled out by the Bible) gets tiring sometimes.

OH WAIT THAT'S NOT LEGAL.

It's interesting, though, right? I mean... the status quo right now is that no gay marriage is federally recognized, and only recognized in some states. Super interesting that someone else's "free speech" won out there. At what point does it leave "free speech" and enter "actively working to keep inequality?" Which donation to anti-LGBT groups would that have been?



Of course he wouldn't. Random guys on the street are statistically unlikely to have the dollars (and be willing to give them) to fund side projects that help other groups lobby against gay marriage. No one gives a shit what the toothless white dude with a NASCAR hat thinks about Chick-fil-A and "the homosexicals that are threatnin' traditional marriage!" and has to squeeze a nickel so tight the buffalo poops to make ends meet. His one vote doesn't effect change or uphold the status quo. Now, funding groups to mobilize 3 million toothless white dudes with NASCAR hats on (PrettyBoy is going to come in this thread and bitchslap me for the NASCAR references) DOES make a difference.

Gays are not the only power minority that has money. They're certainly not a power majority that has money. Because people who run multi-billion dollar companies start charities that fund anti-LGBT groups. But it's cool though - because they're always more privileged than someone, right?

You win. It is apparent that we are not going to convince each other, so to you too, I say goodnight.

[amIblue?]

Originally Posted by agzg

First, which biblical definition of marriage do you mean, here? I'm quite fond of the Man+Wife+Wife+Wife one. Because Lord knows, taking care of a man (clearly my job as a woman, as is spelled out by the Bible) gets tiring sometimes.

Yeah, I wouldn't mind having someone to help with the housework.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

But, since homosexuality has been turned into a 'hot button' political issue

Bless your heart.

Homosexuality isn't a political issue at all. The political issue comes into play when people like you see homosexuals as second class citizens not worthy of equal protection of rights as heterosexual citizens. Your statements about how a white homosexual male could never be as oppressed as you is quite bold as well. In all seriousness, how the hell do you know? Everyone's journey is different in life and not everyone can "hide under the radar" like you assume they can or even choose to do. I really don't want to get into the Oppression Olympics here but I personally have gay friends that have been disowned from their families, have been forced out of their careers, have been arrested, have been gay-bashed so bad that they were hospitalized all based solely on their sexuality so your comment about how none of these individuals know oppression really ANNOYS me.

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

Kinda, sorta no.

What people do in their lives is their business. But, since homosexuality has been turned into a 'hot button' political issue, it is not unreasonable for people to take sides.

Christianity is very deeply rooted in this country. And, in Christianity homosexuality is seen as sinful, along with other acts. So, if you ask me as a Christian, do I have a problem with gays, then yes I do because it does go against the Bible. I strive to live as close to God's word as possible.

But, I'm also wise enough to recognize that not everyone is a Christian. I'm also wise enough to know that people have the right to their own beliefs even though they differ from mine. So, in that respect, then I say live and let live.

Personally, I'm heterosexual. So for me it is hard to comprehend being attracted to someone of the same sex.

If someone says they are not in support of gay marriage, as marriage defined by the Bible, then they have every right to express that openly in the same way that someone would express the opposite view.

Going back to the original point of this thread - I think if the CEO of CFA was not the CEO, but some random guy, then this would not make news. The reason this made news, IMO, is because this was said by someone who runs a multi-billion dollar company. Gays are seen as a political group that exercises its power and influence (read money). So, the idea of someone offending a political group like that ruffled feathers. Bottom line - money is involved. If money was not involved then I don't think anyone would care. Gay, or not.

The problem is that many people who are Christian are politically forcing their religious beliefs on the rest of the country, and that is what is unacceptable. There has never been one statement, fact, or reason to deny two consenting unrelated adults of the same sex/gender a marriage that doesn't come down to religion, and this is the core of the whole problem and why people are mad about the money donated by ChikFilH8 to influence politics and deny human rights while furthering their Christian beliefs. I'm getting tired that Freedom of Religion is an argument for interfering with the Due Process and Equal Protection Clauses of the 14th Amendment by depriving people of equal rights. It wasn't okay with Loving v. Virginia 45 years ago, and it isn't okay now either.