U of Charleston Suspends TKE

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Is this an NIC-NPC thing?

Yep...or at least NPC. My chapter was shut down for low numbers with 30 members. Not to say a chapter couldn't stay open with 30 members if that's at or close to total. Our total was around 80, but probably should have been lowered as evidenced by two chapters closing for numbers less than a decade apart and two of the 5 remaining chapters still struggling. I'm still relatively convinced it was a housing issue for us, since our house held 30 + housemother suite and we couldn't even get half the chapter to live in.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Yes. Maybe I should have specified. 33 is a member of an NPC organization.

Yeah I'm a GC regular so I know that 33girl is a member of an NPC organization. I asked that to explicitly place this within the proper NIC-NPC context (well, the TKE context is far more important than the NIC-NPC context) to remove the implication that a 4-member chapter is problematic, in general.

[ThetaPrincess24]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Sometimes an organization deserves to be criticized when it acts in poor taste. We're all lumped together by non-greeks and when one organization, particularly one as well-recognized as TKE tolerates bad behavior, it reflects on all of us. I've seen them tolerate some pretty absurd things in the past. Maybe they're turning a corner.

I couldnt agree more with this statement!

[33girl]

As I said to DrPhil, there may be an instance where an organization (mine, yours, NPC or NIC) will support a 4 member chapter. There are various reasons for this. So no, I will not definitively say that my org would shut down a 4 member chapter, solely for having 4 members.

Lots of strange dealings happen and to say "this will NEVER occur" is just plain folly.

This chapter in the original post, from what I can see, was not shut down for having 6 members. It was shut down for hazing.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by 33girl

This chapter in the original post, from what I can see, was not shut down for having 6 members. It was shut down for hazing.

That's what I thought and the fact that chapter size was brought up (and by a non-TKE if I remember correctly?) is why I asked whether there is a chapter size minimum for TKE.

There are Delta collegiate chapters with 6 and fewer active members; and chapters for other NPHC GLOs with 6 and fewer active members. Whether that works and "is appropriate" is up to the NPHC GLO and school.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

That's what I thought and the fact that chapter size was brought up (and by a non-TKE if I remember correctly?) is why I asked whether there is a chapter size minimum for TKE.

There are Delta collegiate chapters with 6 and fewer active members; and chapters for other NPHC GLOs with 6 and fewer active members. Whether that works and "is appropriate" is up to the NPHC GLO and school.

For NIC-type groups, there is a fixed cost for operating a chapter because national consultants have to be flown in annually or bi-annually, so there needs to be a minimum amount of membership to make that cost-effective for the general fraternity to be able to continue that as a service.

Also, just to be competitive for membership, single-digits won't cut it. In most, maybe all cases where a fraternity is that far down in the tiers, the best thing to do is to shut down and start over with a clean slate.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by Kevin

For NIC-type groups, there is a fixed cost for operating a chapter because national consultants have to be flown in annually or bi-annually, so there needs to be a minimum amount of membership to make that cost-effective for the general fraternity to be able to continue that as a service.

Also, just to be competitive for membership, single-digits won't cut it. In most, maybe all cases where a fraternity is that far down in the tiers, the best thing to do is to shut down and start over with a clean slate.

For flying in consultants, it might make a difference whether there was another chapter of the fraternity within the city.I went to college at Carnegie-Mellon in Pittsburgh, it has Sigma Alpha Epsilon and so does University of Pittsburgh and Duquesne University. All of these schools are *considerably* closer to each other than either is to the Pittsburgh airport.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by naraht

For flying in consultants, it might make a difference whether there was another chapter of the fraternity within the city.I went to college at Carnegie-Mellon in Pittsburgh, it has Sigma Alpha Epsilon and so does University of Pittsburgh and Duquesne University. All of these schools are *considerably* closer to each other than either is to the Pittsburgh airport.

Out here in flyover country it's a bit different than in Pittsburgh. Things are a lot more spread out.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Out here in flyover country it's a bit different than in Pittsburgh. Things are a lot more spread out.

Not doubting that. What you said was much more true in flyover country. There is a difference between a 3 hour drive to the nearest other chapter vs. a 15 minute walk. I know one of the Fraternities at Carnegie-Mellon, the pledge class meeting that focused on being part of the National Fraternity was always held jointly with the pledge class of the chapter at Pitt.

[JonInKC]

Originally Posted by Kevin

TKE seems to have a little different approach to things. That's why they are the biggest fraternity in terms of number of active chapters, but rank a lot lower in terms of average chapter size. At least from my anecdotal experience with our own TKE chapter at my alma mater, which doesn't seem to suffer much from their HQ despite bad numbers and sub-2-point house GPAs, that's been my experience.

Actually Kevin, as a TKE alumni I am not a proponent of the OMG WE NEED CHAPTERS EVERYWHERE OR SIG EP WILL OVERTAKE US IN TOTAL CHAPTERS!!!11111 approach. TKE has focused so much on expansion at the expense of maintaining the chapters it has. Honestly I believe TKE has so many chapters that they don't have the manpower to keep track of them all. I would rather cut the bottom-feeder chapters and put the resources into decent chapters and colonies with potential. Not all our chapters suck, however. Not that you said that, but a lot of people don't know any better.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by JonInKC

Actually Kevin, as a TKE alumni I am not a proponent of the OMG WE NEED CHAPTERS EVERYWHERE OR SIG EP WILL OVERTAKE US IN TOTAL CHAPTERS!!!11111 approach. TKE has focused so much on expansion at the expense of maintaining the chapters it has. Honestly I believe TKE has so many chapters that they don't have the manpower to keep track of them all. I would rather cut the bottom-feeder chapters and put the resources into decent chapters and colonies with potential. Not all our chapters suck, however. Not that you said that, but a lot of people don't know any better.

I didn't mean to even imply that all of your chapters suck. If TKE would help reconnect their alums with their chapters to improve or possibly close and recolonize some of the weakest, I think TKE is potentially a real sleeping giant.

[rdogbob]

Obviously the TKE and any other organization that failed prior to now (they been around 50 years) did not offer students an experience that was meaningful or valuable. When fraternities do not offer students some value for their time and effort, then they become irrelevant and die.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by rdogbob

Obviously the TKE and any other organization that failed prior to now (they been around 50 years) did not offer students an experience that was meaningful or valuable. When fraternities do not offer students some value for their time and effort, then they become irrelevant and die.

What? TKE is still around and is more than 50 years old. You're an idiot.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Kevin

For NIC-type groups, there is a fixed cost for operating a chapter because national consultants have to be flown in annually or bi-annually

Again, this is NOT the case for all national organizations. Some women posters on here have said they never saw a national consultant in all their years as an active.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Again, this is NOT the case for all national organizations. Some women posters on here have said they never saw a national consultant in all their years as an active.

Who said otherwise? If your point is that NPC and NIC are different, then yeah... water's wet, the sky is blue, etc. etc.