Does a shorter associate program lead to more drop-outs?

[DubaiSis]

I think there's something to feeling like you've "earned it" and I think the definition of hazing needs to be revised. The example above is great. Doing little things like those mentioned are not harmful and build rapport. If someone does something that IS hazing, that should be punished, but sending you to have a note signed by another member just introduces you to another gal and helps you figure out chapter dynamics (who's friends with whom). I also think there should be tests, but having the entire chapter take that test is fine with me. People mention a lot that they don't remember the details of their pledge period. Taking the test 4 or more times would certainly resolve that issue!

I am most definitely not a fan of the slippery slope argument, and I think you can teach 18-22 year olds the difference between fun, challenging and bonding exercises and abusive, dangerous or humiliating ones. And a test that requires you to name the founders, the year of your founding, the Greek alphabet and the other chapters on campus is not too much to ask. If someone won't commit to learning that much in 6 weeks, how much commitment are you really going to get out of her over a lifetime?

[ree-Xi]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

I think there's something to feeling like you've "earned it" and I think the definition of hazing needs to be revised. The example above is great. Doing little things like those mentioned are not harmful and build rapport. If someone does something that IS hazing, that should be punished, but sending you to have a note signed by another member just introduces you to another gal and helps you figure out chapter dynamics (who's friends with whom). I also think there should be tests, but having the entire chapter take that test is fine with me. People mention a lot that they don't remember the details of their pledge period. Taking the test 4 or more times would certainly resolve that issue!

I am most definitely not a fan of the slippery slope argument, and I think you can teach 18-22 year olds the difference between fun, challenging and bonding exercises and abusive, dangerous or humiliating ones. And a test that requires you to name the founders, the year of your founding, the Greek alphabet and the other chapters on campus is not too much to ask. If someone won't commit to learning that much in 6 weeks, how much commitment are you really going to get out of her over a lifetime?

Exactly. And that's what those little exercises did. I was able to figure out best friends, big/littles, etc. I also found out who has a sense of humor, who were the "stricter" sisters, who were the "sympathetic" or sweet sisters, etc.

I also believe a test should have to be passed. We had to take weekly quizzes and then a big test. The weekly quizzes were based on the previous week's "history" part of the pledge education meetings (hence the term, "pledge education."

I'm glad that our Founder's Day ritual goes rather deeply into the lives of our founders, because it reiterates the very important story of how we came to exist. I've met currently active sisters who could not name all the founders or even the national President of the day. I think that should be easy information to hold onto. But that's just my opinion of my personal experience with my fraternity.*

Edited to add: *Fraternity here refers to the official name of Alpha Xi Delta Women's Fraternity.

[melindawarren]

Originally Posted by ree-Xi

I also believe a test should have to be passed. We had to take weekly quizzes and then a big test. The weekly quizzes were based on the previous week's "history" part of the pledge education meetings (hence the term, "pledge education."

I'm glad that our Founder's Day ritual goes rather deeply into the lives of our founders, because it reiterates the very important story of how we came to exist. I've met currently active sisters who could not name all the founders or even the national President of the day. I think that should be easy information to hold onto. But that's just my opinion of my personal experience with my fraternity.*

Edited to add: *Fraternity here refers to the official name of Alpha Xi Delta Women's Fraternity.

I can't understand why a history test (a flat-out history test) is hazing. I guess it's because only new members do it? What if everyone had to do it? Really, there's no excuse for not knowing the basic facts of the group.

I don't know if I mentioned this in my story, but I am Jewish, and learning about the history of SDT was a really great experience. Our founders were pretty fascinating women for their time, and I'm proud to be part of their vision (especially as a young Jewish woman who has actually felt anti-Semitism. Yes, it still exists). I'm sure that anyone who takes the time to learn about their sorority's history would share my feelings. How could anyone familiar with how their group came to be not feel a sense of pride? The idea that people can wear letters and NOT know what's behind them is just mind-boggling to me.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by melindawarren

I can't understand why a history test (a flat-out history test) is hazing. I guess it's because only new members do it? What if everyone had to do it? Really, there's no excuse for not knowing the basic facts of the group.

As has been noted before in other threads, there are groups that require such tests prior to initiation. Under our national governing documents, you can't get initiated without scoring 100 on the national exam. This is one of those cases of some groups considering it hazing, not a general consensus that it's hazing.