Omar bin Laden's Statement

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by AnotherKD

I said twenty because if there is a team involved, the person raises a weapon at the team, and the team fire at him all at once, then that can pretty much add up to something around there. I'm not talking about one cop unloading more than one pistol into some guy.

You know it doesn't always work that way in terms of the police just being able to open shots to the point where a suspect can have 20 shots to the center mass. A suspect fighting back or resisting arrest does not always mean the suspect has a weapon and poses a threat to a potential victim or the police officers. The police can't just shoot someone just because the person is a nuisance and won't give up so easily.

Another disclaimer: It is probably the case that the situation in the Osama situation was a lot more hostile and dangerous than that. The military did a lot of research but we don't know whether they knew who was going to be present, who had weapons, and how deadly everything would be.

[AnotherKD]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

You know it doesn't always work that way in terms of the police just being able to open shots to the point where a suspect can have 20 shots to the center mass. A suspect fighting back or resisting arrest does not always mean the suspect has a weapon and poses a threat to a potential victim or the police officers. The police can't just shoot someone just because the person is a nuisance and won't give up so easily.

Another disclaimer: It is probably the case that the situation in the Osama situation was a lot more hostile and dangerous than that. The military did a lot of research but we don't know whether they knew who was going to be present, who had weapons, and how deadly everything would be.

Oh for god's sake, it was hyperbole. Anyways, a military operation with SEAL Team 6 is a lot different than any police operation that I feel like you are talking about.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by AnotherKD

Oh for god's sake, it was hyperbole.

Which is often not needed for a well-informed discussion.

Originally Posted by AnotherKD

Anyways, a military operation with SEAL Team 6 is a lot different than any police operation that I feel like you are talking about.

You obviously didn't read or understand either of my disclaimers.

And I was responding to your hyperbolic response to Splash.

[AnotherKD]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

You obviously didn't read or understand either of my disclaimers.

The paragraphs leading up to your disclaimers had absolutely nothing to add to this topic, as you were talking of police operations. "20 shots to center mass" may be hyperbolic, but it is safe to say that if in a military operation, if some "offender" (which I still have to laugh at) is fighting back rather than surrendering, the military is trained to shoot to kill. It's that simple.

And "The police can't just shoot someone just because the person is a nuisance and won't give up so easily." Osama was a "nuisance"? Your lack of describing something comparable is laughable. Again, not talking police and not talking about someone who is drunk and disorderly.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by AnotherKD

The paragraphs leading up to your disclaimers had absolutely nothing to add to this topic, as you were talking of police operations. "20 shots to center mass" may be hyperbolic, but it is safe to say that if in a military operation, if some "offender" (which I still have to laugh at) is fighting back rather than surrendering, the military is trained to shoot to kill. It's that simple.

But, you read and understood the disclaimers so you know that I know it isn't the same thing.

I know the military is trained to shoot to kill so I didn't interpret Splash to only be talking about military operations. Does the U.S. military just do whatever it does regardless of where it does it? Rhetorical.

Originally Posted by AnotherKD

And "The police can't just shoot someone just because the person is a nuisance and won't give up so easily." Osama was a "nuisance"? Your lack of describing something comparable is laughable. Again, not talking police and not talking about someone who is drunk and disorderly.

This lets me know that you completely misunderstood my posts, including the disclaimers that are an instrumental part of my posts.

[AnotherKD]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

This lets me know that you completely misunderstood my posts, including the disclaimers that are an instrumental part of my posts.

I'm not sure, considering I posted about how "offenders" (Splash didn't define them in her post, so I was assuming she was talking about Osama, as this was the crux of this discussion) would get shot in that situation, and the first reply by you was talking about policemen. Apples to wheelbarrows.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by AnotherKD

I'm not sure, considering I posted about how "offenders" (Splash didn't define them in her post, so I was assuming she was talking about Osama, as this was the crux of this discussion) would get shot in that situation, and the first reply by you was talking about policemen. Apples to wheelbarrows.

I consider Splash to be talking generally since many who question the Osama killing are doing so based on the laws of their lands (since international laws and military practices aren't known by most people) and they wonder when all of these laws become invalid. But if you only want to talk about terrorists....

Suspected and known terrorists sometimes get caught and they aren't all immediately killed. Some are apprehended. Why some are apprehended and others are killed is the real crux of this issue.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

You know it doesn't always work that way in terms of the police just being able to open shots to the point where a suspect can have 20 shots to the center mass. A suspect fighting back or resisting arrest does not always mean the suspect has a weapon and poses a threat to a potential victim or the police officers. The police can't just shoot someone just because the person is a nuisance and won't give up so easily.

Another disclaimer: It is probably the case that the situation in the Osama situation was a lot more hostile and dangerous than that. The military did a lot of research but we don't know whether they knew who was going to be present, who had weapons, and how deadly everything would be.

They can tase you, though.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by agzg

They can tase you, though.

Darn. Most people will live to tell about it, though.

[SydneyK]

Originally Posted by agzg

They can tase you, though.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Darn. Most people will live to tell about it, though.

For real. I totally thought that link was going to be to the Don't Taze Me Bro video.
/taser tangent

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by SydneyK

For real. I totally thought that link was going to be to the Don't Taze Me Bro video.
/taser tangent

The military would never tase known (or suspected, as far as some are concerned) terrorists.

But, all is not lost:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ge7Ea4UrTTk

[SydneyK]

Dangit, I flounced my /taser tangent.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

The military would never tase known (or suspected, as far as some are concerned) terrorists.

Wha? I didn't say that at all. I was just commenting that, before I clicked the link, I thought it was going to be something else.

And wow! at that video you linked to. It really does take all kinds, doesn't it.

/taser tangent (for real this time)

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by SydneyK

Wha? I didn't say that at all. I was just commenting that, before I clicked the link, I thought it was going to be something else.

LOL. I was joking to lead up to the dumb youtube video. I wanted to keep the taser convo in line with the thread. Doh!

Originally Posted by SydneyK

And wow! at that video you linked to. It really does take all kinds, doesn't it.

/taser tangent (for real this time)

Indeed it does. I hope they look back at that video in a few years and think "what the hell were we thinking?!" That type of celebration is what makes some people wonder when celebration becomes...crazy...and that can add to some people's belief that the Osama killing wasn't absolutely necessary. Since the government and military do a lot of things that the layperson doesn't know about, the Osama killing could have been convenient and desired for nationalist and political reasons. But, we will never know whether it was absolutely necessary. I don't believe it was truly about the true safety of America and our allies, since terrorists don't really need Osama alive to do whatever they do, versus Americans and our allies feeling vindicated and a bit more safe.