Are you @#$%ing kidding me??

[DrPhil]

People are jumping to extremes. I don't see this as being even remotely similar to helicopter parents or parents who think their legal name is "Melissa's Mommy/Daddy." Someone's central identity or master status can be that of parent without it being the only thing they have going for themselves. However, it is very difficult to truly have different statuses (job, hobbies, leisure time) if there is no one to help you balance family with other things.

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

I think there's a difference between this and "helicopter parenting," the latter I clearly detest. Whether we like it or not, when one becomes a parent, some aspect of their identity is wrapped up into being a parent. That doesn't mean that your whole life revolves around your kid--it's just that you can't disassociate it.

Yes and it isn't just some aspect of their identity, especially for women. Men are more likely than women to be socialized to believe that being a parent is just one aspect of their identity, and many men can easily go through life with being a parent as something that they mention as an afterthought. It's similar to people who talk about men babysitting their kids ("Oh, my kids are at home with their Daddy for a few hours"). You technically can't babysit your own kids but you can if being a parent is your secondary status in life.

As Miranda of SATC said "I'm a damn good attorney and work hard for this firm. It's being a mommy that I suck at right now."

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

Buy personal cards. Not "Mommy Cards."

So, if this thread wasn't about "mommy cards" and these were just personal cards that some parents distribute to other parents and schools, there wouldn't be a problem. Everything in moderation.

Yeah, people in this thread are jumping to extremes because of their own interpretations of what it means to have a parent card; and how silly that website conveyed the point as far as some people are concerned.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

But then she'd automatically be a helicopter parent and chastised based on the assumption that being a parent is her master status or "entire identity."

Terrifying thought.

...and then she'd be a sad person.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

...and then she'd be a sad person.

But not as sad as Jennifer Aniston, she has no kids. Poor sad lady.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

...and then she'd be a sad person.

And yet another sign of the relationship between gender and depression.

[DiamondAthena]

Back about 13 or so years ago, when I was in HS and met my husband, I had my first set of Personal Cards made up in a Comp Lit Class and I too was totally SHAMELESS about giving them out. So much so that when I met the cute kid in class and saw him passing by me on the way home, I said "hey (while passing him my card) here's my number, call me!" He still claims that was the biggest dork move ever, but he didn't lose the number or accidentally wash it off his hand! And now we're married so I say that's much better than the random scrap of paper or even the cell phone swap.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by agzg

But not as sad as Jennifer Aniston, she has no kids. Poor sad lady.

...and Angelina keeps on pushing them out. I wonder if her identity is wrapped up in beating Jennifer Aniston at life.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

...and Angelina keeps on pushing them out. I wonder if her identity is wrapped up in beating Jennifer Aniston at life.

Obviously. I bet she has a mommy card for each of her kids individually. She has nothing else going on for her, obviously, if people know that she has kids.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

That's extremely judgmental and labeling. There are plenty of parents who are proud that their master status is that of parent. That includes but is not limited to stay-at-home parents (some of whom have advanced degrees) whose full-time job is to proudly raise their children until they reach a certain age.

Maybe so. Admonishment accepted.

In my defense, I guess what I'm reacting to are the parents I've (personally) seen who make being a parent the defining aspect of their identity. Once the child is grown, they are totally adrift. I know many parents who are justifiably proud of what they did as parents and consider their greatest accomplishment, and rightfully so. Where I get uncomfortable is when the parent loses himself or herself in parenthood, and that's what I was referring to.

And while I'm at it, I'll say that my opinion in this thread may be colored by the fact that I'm not a "card person." I forget (or don't bother) to carry business cards on me most of the time. I probably hand out fewer than one dozen a year. As for calling cards, about the only time my wife and I use them is in wedding presents or the like. I'm not criticizing people who get them or hand them out at all -- I'm just saying that's not me.


It's almost Lent. I'll try to do better with my judgmentalism.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by agzg

Obviously. I bet she has a mommy card for each of her kids individually. She has nothing else going on for her, obviously, if people know that she has kids.

If my kids were that cute, I'd have a card for each of them. Two each for Maddox.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

It took everything in me to tell you that I considered that judgmental and labeling. Thanks for not making me feel worse than I already felt for telling you that.

This is about gender socialization which translates into family and parenting processes. Women are more likely than men to be socialized to believe that parenting should be the defining aspect of their identity. It is very easy to lose yourself in something that you have done for so long, that you are so proud of, and that society at large has told you that you should immerse yourself in. People do that with their careers all of the time. I don't see why people see that as less ridiculous than losing yourself in parenting. The average person is a (insert occupation/education level) when you meet them and you often have to say "okay...that's what you got a degree in and do for a living...what do you enjoy when you aren't doing that" for them to go beyond what they consider to be their crowning glory.

Beyond that, this topic really isn't about the extremes of helicopter parents and parents who don't know who they are without their children (although remembering who you are without your children can also be difficult for more "full-time parents"). There are parents who are proud parents, first and foremost, but have a sense of balance with the help of others. It can't be done alone.

All very good points. And for the record, I also try very hard to guard against being the dad/husband/person who is defined by his work. It's a discussion my wife and I have had many times -- how part of how we (try to) parent well is by (trying to) model a balanced life for a our kids. I had parents who modelled it well.

I don't "celebrate" Lent but I am also working on my judgmental ways, among other things that are not pleasing in God's sight.

I don't "celebrate" it either; I "observe" it.

But otherwise, yeah.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

This is about gender socialization which translates into family and parenting processes. Women are more likely than men to be socialized to believe that parenting should be the defining aspect of their identity.

And the best way to fight socialization is to take an active mental stance on fighting it, right?

So passive elements that play into socialization (particularly since the 'worst' socialization comes from internalization) are likely more pernicious than they may appear at first glance, no?

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

And the best way to fight socialization is to take an active mental stance on fighting it, right?

Both women and men should be socialized to believe that they can choose to have their status as parents be the defining aspect of their identity without fear of being judged and labeled as a helicopter parent or loser who doesn't know their own name. Women and men should also be socialized to believe that they can choose to not have their status as parents be the defining aspect of their identity without fear of being told that they are incapable and incompetent as parents. And, in the case of women, without being told that they fail at womanhood and femininity because they identify as being more than a parent.

Hence, my posts in this thread. Yours, not so much.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Both women and men should be socialized to believe that they can choose to have their status as parents be the defining aspect of their identity without fear of being judged and labeled as a helicopter parent or loser who doesn't know their own name. Women and men should also be socialized to believe that they can choose to not have their status as parents be the defining aspect of their identity without fear of being told that they are incapable and incompetent as parents. And, in the case of women, without being told that they fail at womanhood and femininity because they identify as being more than a parent.

Hence, my posts in this thread. Yours, not so much.

I blame our feminist rants on International Women's Day. It should be abolished. Either that or tomorrow (and the following 363 days) will forever now be known as International Men's Day.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Maybe so. Admonishment accepted.

In my defense, I guess what I'm reacting to are the parents I've (personally) seen who make being a parent the defining aspect of their identity. Once the child is grown, they are totally adrift. I know many parents who are justifiably proud of what they did as parents and consider their greatest accomplishment, and rightfully so. Where I get uncomfortable is when the parent loses himself or herself in parenthood, and that's what I was referring to.

That's fair--it was the blanket statement that threw me off. I'm not unfamiliar with the phenomenon of the parent who wraps her identity around a child. One woman in particular, a former co-worker, has revolved her entire life around her three-year old daughter. Her daughter's come before her livelihood (no matter how much you love your child, you really need to be able to keep a roof over his/her head) and her marriage (which really should come first). This woman had a pretty terrible childhood and didn't have a lot going on for her (job, education, friends) UNTIL she had her daughter.

Granted, that's a lot of pathology going on there, but to some extent I understand why she did it. I hope she pulls back enough to allow her daughter to have some sort of a life, though.

I'd worry about a mother like that way earlier than I'd worry about a college-educated, happily-married woman with or without an out-of-the-home job who wants to pass out "mommy cards."