NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

[agzg]

I just really don't think that a JCC or a YMCA (or "Y", now) would meet this type of criticism. So I don't think they need to care about the relative proximity to Ground Zero.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by agzg

I just really don't think that a JCC or a YMCA (or "Y", now) would meet this type of criticism. So I don't think they need to care about the relative proximity to Ground Zero.

I can understand why people who lost someone in the attacks, for example, feel so strongly about the location. I see that viewpoint, I just don't agree with it because you're right, if it was a JCC or YMCA it wouldn't cause this type of uproar. They have the right to worship where they please.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

He really should of left it alone, and NO it's not in the realm of the Federal government.

Originally Posted by Animate

As fare as the President goes...learn when to be quiet man! It's not a federal issue at all.

The fact that it's not a federal issue is sort of beside the point. It's definitely a political issue, and the president is a political as well as a governmental official. Then there's the whole bully-pulpit thing.

It's a no-win situation. If a he says nothing, he'll be pilloried by political opponents (and perhaps by political allies) for not taking a stand on the issue. If he says something, he'll be pilloried for what he says. If he says "it's not a federal issue" he'll be criticized for not taking a stand.

It's politics.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

It's politics.

Ya don't say!

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

I can understand why people who lost someone in the attacks, for example, feel so strongly about the location. I see that viewpoint, I just don't agree with it because you're right, if it was a JCC or YMCA it wouldn't cause this type of uproar. They have the right to worship where they please.

There are also people who lost loved ones who are in favor of it. Calling on the memory of the victims as a means to decry this effort is emotionally abusive and one-sided.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

There are also people who lost loved ones who are in favor of it. Calling on the memory of the victims as a means to decry this effort is emotionally abusive and one-sided.

Right, and as I said I disagree with them. But I can see that viewpoint, regardless of my own feelings.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

Right, and as I said I disagree with them. But I can see that viewpoint, regardless of my own feelings.

I was agreeing!

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

I was agreeing!

Gotcha.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by agzg

I just really don't think that a JCC or a YMCA (or "Y", now) would meet this type of criticism. So I don't think they need to care about the relative proximity to Ground Zero.

Well, of course, and I don't understand why people keep bringing up the JCC and YMCA. Agree or disagree, there are some basic concepts that should be understood:

This is a topic because it is a Mosque.
This is a topic because Muslim is not the dominant religion in America.
This is a topic because terrorists who claim to be Muslim committed a terrorist act.
This is a topic because a new Mosque (what it will include doesn't erase the religious component) is going to be built where many consider to be near Ground Zero.
This is a topic because it pisses many Americans off, including those who are well informed about the topic.

This is arguably not just about Islam and a mosque being built because a mosque being built in an area with a Muslim population and where "Ground Zero" is not in the same sentence may not have received so much attention. Similar would happen if terrorists who claimed to be Christian committed a terrorist act in a country, where Christianity is not the dominant religion, and planned on building a church a few blocks from the attack. And, no, "Christian outreach gone awry" doesn't count.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

And, no, "Christian outreach gone awry" doesn't count.

I understood you to this point. What does this mean?

[epchick]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

This is a topic because Muslim is not the dominant religion in America.

I know you know this (and probably just typed the wrong word) but the religion is Islam. A Muslim is someone who follows Islam.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by epchick

I know you know this (and probably just typed the wrong word) but the religion is Islam. A Muslim is someone who follows Islam.

Reading my post would tell you that I knew that.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Well, of course, and I don't understand why people keep bringing up the JCC and YMCA.

I was under the understanding (and it may be mistaken) that this was more than "just a mosque" - I thought it was supposed to be a multi-level community center.

The comparison may not fit completely with what the Y has become in recent decades, but I think it certainly fits with JCC in terms of place of worship/community center/athletics facilities/daycare and all the other things a JCC does in a community.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

The fact that it's not a federal issue is sort of beside the point. It's definitely a political issue, and the president is a political as well as a governmental official. Then there's the whole bully-pulpit thing.

It's a no-win situation. If a he says nothing, he'll be pilloried by political opponents (and perhaps by political allies) for not taking a stand on the issue. If he says something, he'll be pilloried for what he says. If he says "it's not a federal issue" he'll be criticized for not taking a stand.

It's politics.

Yes and he was at an iftar, it was one of those things where he "had" to say "something."

Originally Posted by agzg

I was under the understanding (and it may be mistaken) that this was more than "just a mosque" - I thought it was supposed to be a multi-level community center.

The comparison may not fit completely with what the Y has become in recent decades, but I think it certainly fits with JCC in terms of place of worship/community center/athletics facilities/daycare and all the other things a JCC does in a community.

Yes, it's more like a JCC with the equivalent of a chapel (dedicated prayer space). Currently it's just a prayer space mostly as overflow from the two other mosques nearby - one more conservative, one very progressive.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by agzg

I was under the understanding (and it may be mistaken) that this was more than "just a mosque" - I thought it was supposed to be a multi-level community center.

The comparison may not fit completely with what the Y has become in recent decades, but I think it certainly fits with JCC in terms of place of worship/community center/athletics facilities/daycare and all the other things a JCC does in a community.

It's a mosque with a tennis court. The YMCA is a "church with a tennis court" and the JCC is a "synagogue with a tennis court" in many areas where their foundations have never been hidden under their community centers theme.

Some of this depends on how things are in the areas that we have lived. The YMCA is still the YMCA for many of us (it will never just be "the Y" to me) and the JCC will always be the JCC. The clientelle and services provided are in line with their Christian and Jewish foundations (part of which emphasizes outreach), as far as I'm concerned. I enjoy both the YMCA and the JCC. I use the YMCA and the JCC (because I have Jewish family members and I'm one of the few nonJewish customers and staff that I usually see there).

So, it is no surpise if people can't overlook the "place of worship" image. Also, as you stated regarding the age of the YMCA as compared to the JCC, the Islamic community center theme is new for many people. It isn't a more mainstream concept. The Jewish community center theme used to be new and some areas had to adjust to it. If the Islamic community center is ever built and the newness wears out, people may eventually think of the ICC similar to how they view the YMCA and JCC.