Feds to file lawsuit over Arizona immigration law - Page 16

Drolefille · #**226** 08-02-2010, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by starang21

my point was that people commit crimes and break laws. that doesn't mean that the main problem is with the laws. it's about as valid as comparing speeding to immigration.

No. Really. She was drawing a contrast to show how society treats people who break different laws. Rather than making a comparison that it works one way with drugs so it must work that way with immigration.

But your comparison was more apt, perhaps, than you think. Society dehumanizes drug users, despite the fact that it's far more common and far less harmful, on the whole, than they think. But no, we have to fear the crackheads and protect the children and Just Say No. So instead of working on solving drug abuse we create reactionary laws that criminalize otherwise victimless crimes and cause their excessive financial burden, while putting the guy who smokes pot in prison with far more hardened criminals.

There's a problem with drug law. It's not deterring people from using drugs, it provides a black market here for the drug cartels to sell to, and it's costing us a lot of money.

Similarly there's a problem with our immigration law, it's not deterring people from crossing the border, it's created a black market, and continuing with harsher enforcement such as militarizing our border would cost a LOT of money.

In both cases "fixing" law would be better than doing more of the same.

starang21 · #**227** 08-02-2010, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drolefille

No. Really. She was drawing a contrast to show how society treats people who break different laws. Rather than making a comparison that it works one way with drugs so it must work that way with immigration.

But your comparison was more apt, perhaps, than you think. Society dehumanizes drug users, despite the fact that it's far more common and far less harmful, on the whole, than they think. But no, we have to fear the crackheads and protect the children and Just Say No. So instead of working on solving drug abuse we create reactionary laws that criminalize otherwise victimless crimes and cause their excessive financial burden, while putting the guy who smokes pot in prison with far more hardened criminals.

There's a problem with drug law. It's not deterring people from using drugs, it provides a black market here for the drug cartels to sell to, and it's costing us a lot of money.

Similarly there's a problem with our immigration law, it's not deterring people from crossing the border, it's created a black market, and continuing with harsher enforcement such as militarizing our border would cost a LOT of money.

In both cases "fixing" law would be better than doing more of the same.

nothing is going to deter people from crossing the border. as long as there are borders, folks will continue to cross is illegally. whether or not the process is easier. said "black market" will always exist because some people will attempt to circumvent the law. the problem is not with our immigration law, but with the people who circumvent it.

and i wonder if the families of drug users think that it's a victimless crime.

Nanners52674 · #**228** 08-02-2010, 05:35 PM

Just read this online, Senator Kyl supports measure that would eliminate birthright citizenship for those born to illegal immigrants.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/...n6733905.shtml

Drolefille · #**229** 08-02-2010, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by starang21

nothing is going to deter people from crossing the border. as long as there are borders, folks will continue to cross is illegally. whether or not the process is easier. said "black market" will always exist because some people will attempt to circumvent the law. the problem is not with our immigration law, but with the people who circumvent it.

and i wonder if the families of drug users think that it's a victimless crime.

Carrot and stick. You've already said this is not a priority for you, so I'm not actually sure why you're interested in discussing it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nanners52674

Just read this online, Senator Kyl supports measure that would eliminate birthright citizenship for those born to illegal immigrants.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/...n6733905.shtml

He won't overturn it, it'll take an amendment to change. There's precedent specific to illegal immigration by the courts. He's just trying to make political hay.

starang21 · #**230** 08-02-2010, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drolefille

You've already said this is not a priority for you, so I'm not actually sure why you're interested in discussing it.

because i like discussing things and this is a message board. where you discuss things.

preciousjeni · #**231** 08-02-2010, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nanners52674

Just read this online, Senator Kyl supports measure that would eliminate birthright citizenship for those born to illegal immigrants.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/...n6733905.shtml

I was just coming in to post this. lol

Drolefille · #**232** 08-02-2010, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by starang21

because i like discussing things and this is a message board. where you discuss things.

That wasn't a "GTFO of this thread" post. But you're said a) it's not a priority for you, b) you don't think there's a problem, c) that people would judge, villianize, and cross borders illegally no matter what.

So what's your point? What's your purpose? Is there something you want to know or something you're trying to get across? You're just spinning in circles, often repeating yourself many times without appearing to actually have a purpose and simultaneously denying any concern.

DrPhil · #**233** 08-02-2010, 07:12 PM

What's worse than his allegedly spinning in circles is you all jogging in place with him. Ha.

AOII Angel · #**234** 08-02-2010, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by starang21

nothing is going to deter people from crossing the border. as long as there are borders, folks will continue to cross is illegally. whether or not the process is easier. said "black market" will always exist because some people will attempt to circumvent the law. the problem is not with our immigration law, but with the people who circumvent it.

and i wonder if the families of drug users think that it's a victimless crime.

Hmmm....that Canadian-US border is just teaming with illegal crossings!

AGDee · #**235** 08-02-2010, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Hmmm....that Canadian-US border is just teaming with illegal crossings!

It's how the 9/11 hijackers got into the US.

AOII Angel · #**236** 08-02-2010, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AGDee

It's how the 9/11 hijackers got into the US.

Yeah, but that's not exactly what we're talking about. Terrorists can go across any border, but Canadians aren't sneaking across our border in droves because there isn't an incentive to do so. Their economy is as good as or better than ours, they don't have oppressive poverty driving people across the border looking for jobs to feed their families.

starang21 · #**237** 08-02-2010, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drolefille

That wasn't a "GTFO of this thread" post. But you're said a) it's not a priority for you, b) you don't think there's a problem, c) that people would judge, villianize, and cross borders illegally no matter what.

So what's your point? What's your purpose? Is there something you want to know or something you're trying to get across? You're just spinning in circles, often repeating yourself many times without appearing to actually have a purpose and simultaneously denying any concern.

LOL. i'm just commenting on illegal immmigration. i didn't say there wasn't a problem. but the answer to said problems isn't to make things easier on illegal immigrants.