Nun excommunicated for allowing abortion to save the life of a mother

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by aephi alum

Catholic hospitals do have the right to refuse to perform abortions and other procedures that go against Catholic teachings (e.g. vasectomies, tubals).

Individual Catholic doctors practicing at other hospitals also can refuse to perform procedures that go against Catholic teachings. My more-Catholic-than-the-Pope parents practiced at a city hospital. There was a list of doctors who would not participate in abortions, and my parents, along with most of the Catholic and Orthodox Jewish doctors, were on it. My parents were also the only two doctors in the entire hospital who refused to participate in tubals. But there were plenty of doctors who had no problem with abortion. TOPs and TLs would get assigned to one OR room and residents and attendings with no objection to abortion would be assigned that room.

About the case described in the OP: My understanding of Catholic teaching is that abortion is permissible if the pregnancy poses an imminent threat to the pregnant woman's life. Even my aforementioned more-Catholic-than-the-Pope parents would not object to participating in termination of an ectopic pregnancy. Catholics consider the fetus to be a separate independent life, starting at conception, but the fetus isn't going to survive anyway, so the question is - abort and have one death, or don't abort and have two deaths. Apparently the Vatican considers the latter preferable.

Yeah it's never permissible unless it's the side effect of another legitimate procedure. See MC's posts because he's good at explaining it.

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

Tubals?

Voluntary sterilization is also against Catholic teaching if it's purely for the prevention of birth. (not related to an ectopic pregnancy or something, just because you don't want kids anymore)

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Yeah it's never permissible unless it's the side effect of another legitimate procedure. See MC's posts because he's good at explaining it.



Voluntary sterilization is also against Catholic teaching if it's purely for the prevention of birth. (not related to an ectopic pregnancy or something, just because you don't want kids anymore)

Actually was asking what a tubal was. I'm a idiot lol. And yes I knew that since it falls under non natural birth control.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

Actually was asking what a tubal was. I'm a idiot lol. And yes I knew that since it falls under non natural birth control.

Ah sorry >.< Answered the wrong question.

[aephi alum]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

Actually was asking what a tubal was. I'm a idiot lol. And yes I knew that since it falls under non natural birth control.

I could give you the gory details, but suffice it to say that it's one option for permanent sterilization for women. And permanent sterilization is a big no-no according to the Vatican. Who are a bunch of old men. And if I don't stop typing and hit the "submit reply" button right now this is going to turn into another aephi alum anti-Catholic rant.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by aephi alum

I could give you the gory details, but suffice it to say that it's one option for permanent sterilization for women. And permanent sterilization is a big no-no according to the Vatican. Who are a bunch of old men. And if I don't stop typing and hit the "submit reply" button right now this is going to turn into another aephi alum anti-Catholic rant.

Always thought the Church being a geriatric based hierarchy was a bad idea. And since I am kind of curious can you PM me lol?

[aephi alum]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

Tubals?

In Catholicism, the only acceptable methods of birth control are abstinence and natural family planning (periodic abstinence / the rhythm method). My parents interpreted this to mean that they could not participate in tubal ligation surgery (or a vasectomy, but they're anesthesiologists, not urologists). Did I mention they're more Catholic than the Pope?

[AGDee]

Muslin really doesn't seem like it would make a good uniform.

[DrPhil]

This 16 page thread has covered a lot (literally---we have gone through a ton of topics). Perhaps someone has already answered any questions you may have, as with the first post you created.

[RU OX Alum]

This thread makes me sad

[RU OX Alum]

well both

I didn't realize there were that many way a pregnancy could go that wrong.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Stricly speaking in the Episcopal Church it is open to all baptized Christians. However some churches, mine included, have it open to anybody called to receive. If you choose not to, same thing with the blessing.

[Drolefille]

Ariz. hospital loses Catholic status over surgery

The Roman Catholic Diocese of Phoenix stripped a major hospital of its affiliation with the church Tuesday because of a surgery that ended a woman's pregnancy to save her life.

Bishop Thomas Olmsted called the 2009 procedure an abortion and said St. Joseph's Hospital and Medical Center - recognized internationally for its neurology and neurosurgery practices - violated ethical and religious directives of the national Conference of Catholic Bishops.

"In the decision to abort, the equal dignity of mother and her baby were not both upheld," Olmsted said at a news conference announcing the decision. "The mother had a disease that needed to be treated. But instead of treating the disease, St. Joseph's medical staff and ethics committee decided that the healthy, 11-week-old baby should be directly killed."

...

St. Joseph's does not receive direct funding from the church, but in addition to losing its Catholic endorsement, the 697-bed hospital will no longer be able to celebrate Mass and must remove the Blessed Sacrament from its chapel.

Hunt said the hospital will comply with Olmsted's decision but it will continue to operate under Catholic guidelines.

"We will continue in the Catholic heritage through words and deeds," she said. "We have removed the Blessed Sacrament from our tabernacle, we will have no Masses, but priests will see patients. We are still a hospital."

...

Olmsted's announcement came after months of talks between the Diocese, the hospital and the hospital's parent company, Catholic Healthcare West.

Dr. Charles Alfano, chief medical officer at the hospital and an obstetrician there, said Olmsted was asking the impossible from the hospital.

"Specifically the fact that he requested we admit the procedure performed was an abortion and that it was a violation of the ethical and religious directives and that we would not perform such a procedure in the future," he said. "We could not agree to that. We acted appropriately."

The rest at the source.

@ the bold:
There was a nearly 100% chance of death without the abortion in this case. I've looked all over on this case and not seen a single suggestion of alternative treatment for the woman other than a few suggestions of trying to "deliver" an 11 week old fetus which were not made by medical professionals and is implausible due to the size of the fetus and uterus.

I think the biggest shame here is that the chapel can no longer be used for Masses despite the fact that Mass can be performed in completely unaffiliated airport chapels. I don't think that the hospital itself will suffer.