New SCOTUS nominee

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Whomever brought race and ethnicity into this discussion sucks hairy rat balls. I hope it wasn't me. If so, booooooooo. It annoys the hell outta me that the discrimination of ONE GROUP can't be discussed without attempting to compare and rank oppressions and discriminations.

With that said, it is true that sexual orientation is more easily hidden than race and ethnicity. Discrimination and -isms are about power dynamics and identifiability. If groups are not identifiable as a power minority, they are not easily targeted for bigotry and discrimination. This doesn't mean that people should hide their homosexuality. It means that they CAN do so if they choose to in many (definitely not all) settings. And there are plenty of instances of people who are "in the closet" discriminating on the basis of race. It often does not work the other way around except in the lesser contexts where heterosexual power trumps the oppressed status of their racial and/or ethnic group membership.

Now...that discussion sucked hairy rat balls.

Politics would be a good example. I don't like this topic either.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Politics would be a good example. I don't like this topic either.

Politics are a loose example. It is ultimately all about what can be accomplished and under whose political label.

A white female Senator, a Black male Senator, and a gay white male Senator walk into a bar....

[I.A.S.K.]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I did not miss any of your points, you've only now made an attempt to clarify to where your points are actually understandable. In addition you continually used language that is discriminatory and predominately used by anti-gay groups. For example, there still is no "gay lifestyle" just as there is no "gay look." I'm glad you've been willing to listen during this conversation.
Only thing I clarified was "nuts". Didnt think the context was that far off. My bad.


Now I understand what you were trying to say, although I hope you understand why it was so difficult to understand what you meant when you didn't actually provide detail. Yes, gay people can sometimes hide their orientation for a variety of reasons, however it isn't easy and as I said before it's not really fair to call it a choice when it isn't freely chosen. There are few people who would choose not to talk about their primary relationships, or avoid having relationships altogether if society wasn't pressuring them to. But their visibility isn't different from most religions, barring individuals or sects that promote a specifically identifiable type of dress. (Orthodox Jews for example)

And many pro LGBTQ organizations encourage people to come out to increase visibility of the population because being a more hidden minority tends to increase prejudice.

However, I don't do a lot of comparison between how hard it is for one group vs another because this isn't the Oppression Olympics.

It was a distinction not a comparison. It was a distinction because dismantling the oppression of gays is on a deeper level than just equality. That gay people have to (and that they can) hide who they are to get equal treatment is a big part of the problem. If they couldnt hide it then I think people who are heterosexist and homophobic would be forced to deal with their issues more often.

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I think she's trying to point out that they're a hidden minority and can hide it whereas women or PoC cannot. Which is true. But that gets too close to the next step which is, "therefore women/PoC have it harder than gay people" or alternatively "therefore they should hide it." I'm not sure she's trying to make either of those points though because she kind of has a tendency to suggest heterosexist things without necessarily meaning them.

The next step would be that if gay people can get equal treatment by being in the closet then gay people should be able to get equal treatment when they're out of the closet. I said its a choice because each person decides to be out of the closet. I dont feel that gays should hide or that they should have to, but I do recognize that they do and since they do people can justify their b/s (ie: Dont ask dont tell) or ignore the issue all together.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by I.A.S.K.

It was a distinction not a comparison. It was a distinction because dismantling the oppression of gays is on a deeper level than just equality. That gay people have to (and that they can) hide who they are to get equal treatment is a big part of the problem. If they couldnt hide it then I think people who are heterosexist and homophobic would be forced to deal with their issues more often.

The next step would be that if gay people can get equal treatment by being in the closet then gay people should be able to get equal treatment when they're out of the closet. I said its a choice because each person decides to be out of the closet. I dont feel that gays should hide or that they should have to, but I do recognize that they do and since they do people can justify their b/s (ie: Dont ask dont tell) or ignore the issue all together.

Actually no you specified who your 'others' were. That went a long way to clarifying your entire point.

As I said, I'm glad you've been willing to think about why what you said could be taken in the wrong way.