Arizona governor signs immigration bill

[ASUADPi]

I'm going to get so many flames for this, but some of the comments really are annoying the heck out of me, so I figure it is only time to have a person post who is PRO this law.

I'm glad they did this! It is about time! Obviously the federal government doesn't give a darn about the huge amounts of illegal immigrants in Arizona. No offense, but these illegal immigrants are draining our Arizona economy, because as the "legal" citizen, my taxes are going to take care of their butts.

I'm going to get flames left and right but until you have lived in Arizona your whole life and you have physically been the victim of an illegal immigrant stealing your identity or an illegal immigrant getting services that you can't even get as the LEGAL CITIZEN, you can't possibly understand!

They are here ILLEGALLY. I don't understand why people don't get this. ILLEGAL. Broke the law. Hello a crime was committed! This shouldn't be a difficult concept to understand, but yet somehow it is.

As for Border Patrols. What good do they do when most illegal immigrants go through the desert? That is why Arizona has been fighting for so long to get the fence up and activated. That is why my brother, when he was in the National Guard, was stationed down in Yuma, to monitor the border.

Now Arizona may not be the brightest bulb in the shed (look how they have cut funding to education and social services) but they gotta do what they gotta do to protect the border and state from illegal immigration, because the government isn't doing it for them. Maybe the federal government will "pay attention" now that they (Arizona) has done soemthing so drastic.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by ASUADPi

I'm going to get so many flames for this
I'm going to get flames left and right

These phrases are message board pet peeves of mine.

Originally Posted by ASUADPi

so I figure it is only time to have a person post who is PRO this law.

As long as you don't think you are the first to post in this thread.

Originally Posted by ASUADPi

They are here ILLEGALLY. I don't understand why people don't get this. ILLEGAL. Broke the law. Hello a crime was committed! This shouldn't be a difficult concept to understand, but yet somehow it is.

You're the one who doesn't understand.

If my response is interpreted as a "flame" then consider how you prefaced your post and your tone.

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB

Forget the Mexicans...I want to know when Washington is going to do something about those dirty, white Canadians! They buy our cheap gas and take up all the parking at the premium outlet mall on the indian reservation!

I was up in Stevens, Ferry, and Pend Oreille counties, they also drive really poorly. Worse than Oregon drivers, and they make me have road rage for days. I regret ever going to the Walmart in Colville as those Red Green worshipers nearly killed me.

[epchick]

Originally Posted by ASUADPi

Obviously the federal government doesn't give a darn about the huge amounts of illegal immigrants in Arizona.

Originally Posted by ASUADPi

No offense, but these illegal immigrants are draining our Arizona economy, because as the "legal" citizen, my taxes are going to take care of their butts.

Originally Posted by ASUADPi

...but until you have lived in Arizona your whole life

Originally Posted by ASUADPi

you can't possibly understand!

Lets not try to act like Arizona is the only place with an "illegal" problem. "They are using my tax dollars," "they use my services," "you don't know unless you live here" is uttered by everyone when they want to complain about illegal immigration. Arizona is not special, but you're right-- Arizona is definitely "not the brighest bulb in the shed" (your words, not mine) because other states with similar problems don't resort to this kind of stupidity.

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by epchick

Lets not try to act like Arizona is the only place with an "illegal" problem. "They are using my tax dollars," "they use my services," "you don't know unless you live here" is uttered by everyone when they want to complain about illegal immigration. Arizona is not special, but you're right-- Arizona is definitely "not the brighest bulb in the shed" (your words, not mine) because other states with similar problems don't resort to this kind of stupidity.

Other states may realize if they succeed, a lot of shit won't be getting done either. I'm not saying the working conditions or the legality of it is right, but a lot of work is done by illegals, and if people like their way of life, it is something to consider.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by ASUADPi

I'm going to get so many flames for this, but some of the comments really are annoying the heck out of me, so I figure it is only time to have a person post who is PRO this law.

I'm glad they did this! It is about time! Obviously the federal government doesn't give a darn about the huge amounts of illegal immigrants in Arizona. No offense, but these illegal immigrants are draining our Arizona economy, because as the "legal" citizen, my taxes are going to take care of their butts.

I'm going to get flames left and right but until you have lived in Arizona your whole life and you have physically been the victim of an illegal immigrant stealing your identity or an illegal immigrant getting services that you can't even get as the LEGAL CITIZEN, you can't possibly understand!

They are here ILLEGALLY. I don't understand why people don't get this. ILLEGAL. Broke the law. Hello a crime was committed! This shouldn't be a difficult concept to understand, but yet somehow it is.

As for Border Patrols. What good do they do when most illegal immigrants go through the desert? That is why Arizona has been fighting for so long to get the fence up and activated. That is why my brother, when he was in the National Guard, was stationed down in Yuma, to monitor the border.

Now Arizona may not be the brightest bulb in the shed (look how they have cut funding to education and social services) but they gotta do what they gotta do to protect the border and state from illegal immigration, because the government isn't doing it for them. Maybe the federal government will "pay attention" now that they (Arizona) has done soemthing so drastic.

It's actually startlingly clear that you're the one who has a tenuous grasp, at best, on the real issues involved with illegal immigration.

The real-world costs of illegal immigrants are, for practical purposes, sunk costs - they're basic human services that have been deemed a right for even non-citizens. Surely, you're not for holding back basic human rights from individuals, regardless of skin tone, right?

And won't the increased time and energy dealing with inconsequential immigration-related issues detract from local police's ability to do their jobs, resulting in EVEN MORE costs? Seriously - sunk costs are sunk, no matter how angry you want to be about it. Now, if it's not cheaper, and if it might actually make people less safe, is that worth stepping all over the frigging Constitution in the name of "enforcement" (which is not left to the states anyway)?

Put another way: what will this law actually DO, in your mind?

I guess we'll start there, and see if it's worth moving onto further lessons in Reality Versus The Minutemen 201.

(Preview: how are taxes dealt with when drawn from paychecks of illegals? Why should enforcement be left to business owners, who have a vested interest in NOT enforcing the laws? How much would strawberries cost on Planet NoIllegals? Do you understand the definition of "crime" and its dubious-at-best relation to undocumented immigration? How will this law actually affect social services, which make up the majority of costs? And, finally - how does a closed border and the current 'card'/naturalization pathway system encourage legal immigration when undocumented immigration is easier, cheaper, faster and insanely more convenient? Oh, wait though - closing the border is the solution. That'll work. Just like the war on drugs.)

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

It's actually startlingly clear that you're the one who has a tenuous grasp, at best, on the real issues involved with illegal immigration.

The real-world costs of illegal immigrants are, for practical purposes, sunk costs - they're basic human services that have been deemed a right for even non-citizens. Surely, you're not for holding back basic human rights from individuals, regardless of skin tone, right?

And won't the increased time and energy dealing with inconsequential immigration-related issues detract from local police's ability to do their jobs, resulting in EVEN MORE costs? Seriously - sunk costs are sunk, no matter how angry you want to be about it. Now, if it's not cheaper, and if it might actually make people less safe, is that worth stepping all over the frigging Constitution in the name of "enforcement" (which is not left to the states anyway)?

Put another way: what will this law actually DO, in your mind?

I guess we'll start there, and see if it's worth moving onto further lessons in Reality Versus The Minutemen 201.

(Preview: how are taxes dealt with when drawn from paychecks of illegals? Why should enforcement be left to business owners, who have a vested interest in NOT enforcing the laws? How much would strawberries cost on Planet NoIllegals? Do you understand the definition of "crime" and its dubious-at-best relation to undocumented immigration? How will this law actually affect social services, which make up the majority of costs? And, finally - how does a closed border and the current 'card'/naturalization pathway system encourage legal immigration when undocumented immigration is easier, cheaper, faster and insanely more convenient? Oh, wait though - closing the border is the solution. That'll work. Just like the war on drugs.)

You do realize illegal immigration isn't a "skin tone" issue, right?

I've happened to encounter "illegal aliens" from several countries in Europe...visas run out and they stay. Different route, same outcome.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

You do realize illegal immigration isn't a "skin tone" issue, right?

Ummmmm...HE realizes that and HE won't be the one doing the racial profiling based on black and brown skin tone and non-white racial and ethnic features.

This law was not intended to target illegal immigrants who are not black or brown and it won't be used to target illegal immigrants who are not black or brown.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Ummmmm...HE realizes that and HE won't be the one doing the racial profiling based on black and brown skin tone and non-white racial and ethnic features.

This law was not intended to target illegal immigrants who are not black or brown and it won't be used to target illegal immigrants who are not black or brown.

Ummmm it was directed towards that poster.

Down girl, down.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

Ummmm it was directed towards that poster.

Down girl, down.

Shut up, bitch.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Shut up, bitch.

Someone's being a lady today. Don't write your obnoxious responses if you can't handle getting them back.

I will not be shutting up any time soon. Have a good one!

[PeppyGPhiB]

Originally Posted by ASUADPi

I'm going to get so many flames for this, but some of the comments really are annoying the heck out of me, so I figure it is only time to have a person post who is PRO this law.

I'm glad they did this! It is about time! Obviously the federal government doesn't give a darn about the huge amounts of illegal immigrants in Arizona. No offense, but these illegal immigrants are draining our Arizona economy, because as the "legal" citizen, my taxes are going to take care of their butts.

I'm going to get flames left and right but until you have lived in Arizona your whole life and you have physically been the victim of an illegal immigrant stealing your identity or an illegal immigrant getting services that you can't even get as the LEGAL CITIZEN, you can't possibly understand!

They are here ILLEGALLY. I don't understand why people don't get this. ILLEGAL. Broke the law. Hello a crime was committed! This shouldn't be a difficult concept to understand, but yet somehow it is.

As for Border Patrols. What good do they do when most illegal immigrants go through the desert? That is why Arizona has been fighting for so long to get the fence up and activated. That is why my brother, when he was in the National Guard, was stationed down in Yuma, to monitor the border.

Now Arizona may not be the brightest bulb in the shed (look how they have cut funding to education and social services) but they gotta do what they gotta do to protect the border and state from illegal immigration, because the government isn't doing it for them. Maybe the federal government will "pay attention" now that they (Arizona) has done soemthing so drastic.

I definitely have sympathy for states like Arizona, California, New Mexico and Texas which bear a disproportionately high share of the burden when it comes to U.S. imigration. I'll admit it, I would go crazy living in one of those places, knowing that my taxes were paying for their healthcare and schools, and that they were contributing nothing to my state or country in the way of income or property taxes, which are desperately needed in places like California - a state literally going bankrupt.

I am not opposed to a wall, since the boundary has not been respected.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB

I definitely have sympathy for states like Arizona, California, New Mexico and Texas which bear a disproportionately high share of the burden when it comes to U.S. imigration. I'll admit it, I would go crazy living in one of those places, knowing that my taxes were paying for their healthcare and schools, and that they were contributing nothing to my state or country in the way of income or property taxes, which are desperately needed in places like California - a state literally going bankrupt.

I am not opposed to a wall, since the boundary has not been respected.

How sure are you that undocumented aliens AREN'T paying in?

Those that own property are almost assuredly paying property taxes (the state will collect - and a cursory glance shows AZ is pretty standard re: liens/foreclosure). Those that have a job are either a.) paying withholding (even if under false documentation) or b.) are being paid illegally under the table by their employer, who reaps the benefits of illegal labor (not applicable in Texas, which has no state income tax). Sales taxes, tolls, etc. all happen.

The US has massive immigration problems - nobody will disagree with that. But there is a lot of hyperbole by individuals with a specific agenda that doesn't really fit the reality of what immigration really does.

States are going bankrupt for a variety of stupid decisions, some of which are related to population growth and immigration, and some of which are easily blamed but really are only tangentially related.