Arizona governor signs immigration bill

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Kevlar281

I don't see the difference between what the border patrol does and what the AZ police will now start doing.

Where does border patrol operate? Do they patrol every street and do illegal immigrant check points throughout the state?

[Kevlar281]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Where does border patrol operate?

Typically within a 100 miles of the border.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Do they patrol every street

They don't but nothing that I know of besides policy prevents them from doing so if they chose to.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Do they...do illegal immigrant check points throughout the state?

Yes

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

As for Kevlar...it is one thing to be checked near a border, it is completely another to be stopped walking down the street in towns far from a border.

I don't see how proximity to the border makes one acceptable and the other not.

/edit: to prevent double posting.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Kevlar281

They don't but nothing that I know of besides policy prevents them from doing so if they chose to.

Then that's one of the differences between the border patrol and regular police patrol.

Originally Posted by Kevlar281

Typically within a 100 miles of the border.
Yes

Then I believe the answer is "no, they don't patrol and have check points throughout the state."

Originally Posted by Kevlar281

I don't see how proximity to the border makes one acceptable and the other not.

Let's think critically about this:
Border patrol. Proximity to the border. Specific purpose.

Every city and state has different roles and jurisdictions for policing agencies for a reason.

[Kevlar281]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Then that's one of the differences between the border patrol and regular police patrol.

I'm not arguing that there is no difference between the border patrol and the AZ police. I'm arguing that one government entity is already doing what another law enforcement agency will soon be doing.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Then I believe the answer is "no, they don't patrol and have check points throughout the state."

I'll say it one more time. Yes they do.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Let's think critically about this:
Border patrol. Proximity to the border. Specific purpose.

Every city and state has different roles and jurisdictions for policing agencies for a reason.

So that makes it ok? Wow.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Kevlar281

I'm arguing that one government entity is already doing what another law enforcement agency will soon be doing.

No.

Originally Posted by Kevlar281

I'll say it one more time. Yes they do.

75-100 miles from the border is "throughout the state?" Explain that to me. Aren't there more miles in the state than that?

Originally Posted by Kevlar281

So that makes it ok? Wow.

Ummm...what are you talking about?

[Kevlar281]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

No.

Yes

Originally Posted by DrPhil

75-100 miles from the border is "throughout the state?" Explain that to me. Aren't there more miles in the state than that?

Their reach goes past that and does. Just because they choose to an operate in an area with highest probability of success doesn't diminish their power throughout the states. Feel free to look up U.S. Immigration and Customs enforcement.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Ummm...what are you talking about?

I'm saying that proximity to the border doesn't make one ok and the other a civil rights violation.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Kevlar281

Feel free to look up U.S. Immigration and Customs enforcement.

No, be clearer and more concise in what you are trying to convey. You and Wikipedia said approximately 75 miles from the border for the border patrol. If border patrol's reach extends beyond that, YOU need to clearly state that and specify that you are still only talking about border patrol.

Originally Posted by Kevlar281

I'm saying that proximity to the border doesn't make one ok and the other a civil rights violation.

We aren't talking about the same thing.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by Kevlar281

Their reach goes past that and does. Just because they choose to an operate in an area with highest probability of success doesn't diminish their power throughout the states. Feel free to look up U.S. Immigration and Customs enforcement.

ICE =/= CBP

They're both under DHS but try to call a Border Patrol agent an ICE agent or, even worse, and ICE agent a Border Patrol agent and watch smoke come out of their ears.

[christiangirl]

Originally Posted by ree-Xi

"Papers, please"....remind you of a certain period in history?? I am appalled!!!!

Um, Apartheid anyone?

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by Low C Sharp

Exactly -- they are random, which is fine. What isn't fine is stopping people on the non-random suspicion that they are here illegally, when they haven't shown signs of committing any other crime. It's hard to imagine any enforcement system where this law would impose equal burdens on white and Hispanic citizens of Arizona. If enforced as written, it's going to lead to lots of interrogation of Hispanic-looking people in large part because they appear Hispanic.

I'm waiting for some Native Americans to be harassed, and see if there's any discussion about illegal immigration The Navajo Nation is not to be trifled with.

To quote Smoke Signals:

Velma: You guys got your passports?
Thomas Builds-the-Fire: Passports?
Velma: Yeah, you're leavin' the rez and goin' into a whole different country, cousin.
Thomas Builds-the-Fire: But... but, it's the United States.
Lucy: Damn right it is! That's as foreign as it gets. Hope you two have your vaccinations.

[epchick]

Originally Posted by Kevlar281

I'll say it one more time. Yes they do.

Ummm...no. I can travel from my city all the way to LA/San Fran and pass through 1 immigration check point--which is right between Las Cruces, NM and Deming, NM. That is not "throughout the state." Plus, many times it isn't open or they just wave you on through.

The only checkpoint I've been stopped at was heading towards Carlsbad Caverns, and the dude was pretty nosey (although he was an ex-NFL player and pretty cute so it was ok :P )

Originally Posted by agzg

When crossing borders it's always best to have a passport.

It's mandatory now due to the new law....although I don't know how well it is enforced. It used to be that you only needed a passport when you head a certain amount of miles past a major city, but now you need one to cross.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by Kevlar281

Typically within a 100 miles of the border.


They don't but nothing that I know of besides policy prevents them from doing so if they chose to.


Yes


I don't see how proximity to the border makes one acceptable and the other not.

/edit: to prevent double posting.

Hmm...You just don't want to see the difference. People expect to be checked when they go to a border crossing. It is part of the process. People do not expect to be put through credentials checks on the way to the grocery store or coming home from school. It is not reasonable to say that a RANDOM check near a border is the same as a check in a city on "suspicion for illegal status." Which one is more likely to be based on a discriminatory mind set?

Might I also add that it is well and good for a lily-white caucasian to say they wouldn't mind pulling out their ID to prove that they're an American citizen if asked, but YOU are not the one who will be asked over and over and over again. And if you were, you'd be b*tching like those annoying people at the airport that get randomly screened and start complaining that they "always" get screened.
And this is coming from a lily-white blonde who would never get stopped for suspicion of illegal status.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Might I also add that it is well and good for a lily-white caucasian to say they wouldn't mind pulling out their ID to prove that they're an American citizen if asked, but YOU are not the one who will be asked over and over and over again. And if you were, you'd be b*tching like those annoying people at the airport that get randomly screened and start complaining that they "always" get screened.
And this is coming from a lily-white blonde who would never get stopped for suspicion of illegal status.

Serious question: Is Kevlar lily-white? LOL.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Serious question: Is Kevlar lily-white? LOL.

He's not the one that mentioned not minding being stopped. Ghostwriter said that (and having Native American blood isn't the same, btw.) Kevlar just mentioned that people get stopped near borders. (I always thought Kevlar was black.) This has been a common argument used by caucasians since they won't be the ones effected by the law anyway. If I wasn't clear, it was because I was typing too fast. Sorry! The statement was meant as a general statement to any caucasian making that asinine claim.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

He's not the one that mentioned not minding being stopped. Ghostwriter said that (and having Native American blood isn't the same, btw.) Kevlar just mentioned that people get stopped near borders. (I always thought Kevlar was black.) This has been a common argument used by caucasians since they won't be the ones effected by the law anyway. If I wasn't clear, it was because I was typing too fast. Sorry! The statement was meant as a general statement to any caucasian making that asinine claim.

No, I really was curious. LOL. I also thought Kevlar was Black. I didn't know whether Ghostwriter was white, but saw the mention of N.A. I get your point.