Obama orders end to the practice of denying same-sex partners hospital visits

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

I hope not. I definitely think they should be able to visit their loved one in the hospital, but I don't think that we should go so far as to legalize gay marriage.

Why?

And no I'm not asking to be inflammatory.

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

Why?

And no I'm not asking to be inflammatory.

No, I know you aren't trying to be inflammatory.

I just personally don't agree with it for religious reasons. Some try to spin it as homophobia but *Kanye shrug* that's not the case.

Interestingly enough I know some gay people in school with me right now who don't agree with gay marriage either because they feel that being gay is a sin. And engaging in a discussion with them about it was interesting. We have a LGBT club at school and they have almost become divided because of this difference in opinion.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

No, I know you aren't trying to be inflammatory.

I just personally don't agree with it for religious reasons. Some try to spin it as homophobia but *Kanye shrug* that's not the case.

Interestingly enough I know some gay people in school with me right now who don't agree with gay marriage either because they feel that being gay is a sin. And engaging in a discussion with them about it was interesting. We have a LGBT club at school and they have almost become divided because of this difference in opinion.

But religion has nothing to do with whether or not the state should recognize marriage between two consenting adults. Another couples marriage would have no bearing on your religious beliefs, on your marriage or on your life, so why do you even care if they get married? This is the United States of America, not the United States of Christianity. There are people here who have all kinds of beliefs, religious or otherwise, so legislating morality based on what your religion dictates is not democracy.

[dreamseeker]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

But religion has nothing to do with whether or not the state should recognize marriage between two consenting adults. Another couples marriage would have no bearing on your religious beliefs, on your marriage or on your life, so why do you even care if they get married? This is the United States of America, not the United States of Christianity. There are people here who have all kinds of beliefs, religious or otherwise, so legislating morality based on what your religion dictates is not democracy.

<3

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

But religion has nothing to do with whether or not the state should recognize marriage between two consenting adults. Another couples marriage would have no bearing on your religious beliefs, on your marriage or on your life, so why do you even care if they get married? This is the United States of America, not the United States of Christianity. There are people here who have all kinds of beliefs, religious or otherwise, so legislating morality based on what your religion dictates is not democracy.

I think KSUviolet asked for my PERSONAL opinion. Which means your discussion about church and state is not relevant.

But let's not forget that the country WAS founded on Christian principles. Most of the laws we follow have a foundation in the Ten Commandments.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

I think KSUviolet asked for my PERSONAL opinion. Which means your discussion about church and state is not relevant.

But let's not forget that the country WAS founded on Christian principles. Most of the laws we follow have a foundation in the Ten Commandments.

And the ten commandments say Thou shall not commit adultery not thou shalt not marry someone of the same sex. My whole point is, there is no state sponsored religion, and the "Christian values" that this country was founded on are up to debate. Christianity in and of itself has so many denomintions- which one gets to decide what moral compass we follow. Some think gay marriage is okay. I vote we follow that denomination!

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

And the ten commandments say Thou shall not commit adultery not thou shalt not marry someone of the same sex. My whole point is, there is no state sponsored religion, and the "Christian values" that this country was founded on are up to debate. Christianity in and of itself has so many denomintions- which one gets to decide what moral compass we follow. Some think gay marriage is okay. I vote we follow that denomination!

Any "Christian Principles" that are in are constitution are simply a result of the Christian upbringing of our founders. They did not set out to create a Christian state.

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by ThetaDancer

I'm really asking this to try to understand, not to try to start anything. I've heard the religious argument before but I don't understand why some people think their religious views should be imposed on others. If gay marriage were legalized, your church would not be required to perform gay marriage ceremonies. So I don't really understand what makes that a legitimate argument. Can you help me make sense of that? If it's a personal disagreement based on religious reasons, why wouldn't you just personally not engage in such an activity and not belong to a church that supports it? Why does that have to extend to everyone else?

I heart you for this, my Panhellenic sister, even though we have different views on things.

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

I think KSUviolet asked for my PERSONAL opinion. Which means your discussion about church and state is not relevant.

But let's not forget that the country WAS founded on Christian principles. Most of the laws we follow have a foundation in the Ten Commandments.

The 10 Commandments (and a lot of other principles you speak of) aren't just a Christian thing, some of The Chosen People are likely to disagree with you, as will some Muslims. Also, context is highly important here. People of the 1770s may have very different religious beliefs than 2010s, and be of the same faiths. Trying to live within the context now, is often difficult. Neither of us would have been able to vote, and perhaps I would have learned to read, play the piano and speak French, but the white, land owning, educated, Christian men of 1770 are not the be all end all, and provided a great foundation.

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

And the ten commandments say Thou shall not commit adultery not thou shalt not marry someone of the same sex. My whole point is, there is no state sponsored religion, and the "Christian values" that this country was founded on are up to debate. Christianity in and of itself has so many denomintions- which one gets to decide what moral compass we follow. Some think gay marriage is okay. I vote we follow that denomination!

Unitarians and Episcopalians are some places you may want to check out. Some, but not all individual ELCA Lutheran churches as well.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

And the ten commandments say Thou shall not commit adultery not thou shalt not marry someone of the same sex. My whole point is, there is no state sponsored religion, and the "Christian values" that this country was founded on are up to debate. Christianity in and of itself has so many denomintions- which one gets to decide what moral compass we follow. Some think gay marriage is okay. I vote we follow that denomination!

Not only don't the ten commandments say anything about marrying someone of the same sex, the various places that homosexuality are mentioned aren't in the same chapter of the bible as the 10 commandments (in either of the places where the 10 commandments are mentioned.) The closest that you get is that both one set of statements of the 10 commandments is in Leviticus and so is the prohibition against homosexual sex. (Note that Lesbian sex isn't mentioned at all).

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by naraht

Not only don't the ten commandments say anything about marrying someone of the same sex, the various places that homosexuality are mentioned aren't in the same chapter of the bible as the 10 commandments (in either of the places where the 10 commandments are mentioned.) The closest that you get is that both one set of statements of the 10 commandments is in Leviticus and so is the prohibition against homosexual sex. (Note that Lesbian sex isn't mentioned at all).

See my post above.

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

And the ten commandments say Thou shall not commit adultery not thou shalt not marry someone of the same sex. My whole point is, there is no state sponsored religion, and the "Christian values" that this country was founded on are up to debate. Christianity in and of itself has so many denomintions- which one gets to decide what moral compass we follow. Some think gay marriage is okay. I vote we follow that denomination!

Great. I never said there was anything in the Ten Commandments about homosexuality in the first place.


And furthermore, what is the point of this debate about religion?

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

Great. I never said there was anything in the Ten Commandments about homosexuality in the first place.


And furthermore, what is the point of this debate about religion?

You are completely missing the point. You said we make most of our laws based on the ten commandments. I merely pointed out that the ten commandments expressly forbid adultery, but we don't have Christians running around trying to outlaw that now do we. The debate about religion came up because you used your religious beliefs as a reason for why gay marriage should not be legalized. If you don't like the validity of that view being debated, then keep it to yourself.
Religion itself has not been debated. No one here has said religion is bad or people are stupid for being religious. We've all just agreed to keep our religious beliefs to ourselves so they don't impinge on the free practice or lack of practice of religion of our fellow Americans.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

And furthermore, what is the point of this debate about religion?

What was your point in bringing it up? You shared the info and people are responding.

[ThetaDancer]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

No, I know you aren't trying to be inflammatory.

I just personally don't agree with it for religious reasons. Some try to spin it as homophobia but *Kanye shrug* that's not the case.

Interestingly enough I know some gay people in school with me right now who don't agree with gay marriage either because they feel that being gay is a sin. And engaging in a discussion with them about it was interesting. We have a LGBT club at school and they have almost become divided because of this difference in opinion.

I'm really asking this to try to understand, not to try to start anything. I've heard the religious argument before but I don't understand why some people think their religious views should be imposed on others. If gay marriage were legalized, your church would not be required to perform gay marriage ceremonies. So I don't really understand what makes that a legitimate argument. Can you help me make sense of that? If it's a personal disagreement based on religious reasons, why wouldn't you just personally not engage in such an activity and not belong to a church that supports it? Why does that have to extend to everyone else?

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by ThetaDancer

I'm really asking this to try to understand, not to try to start anything. I've heard the religious argument before but I don't understand why some people think their religious views should be imposed on others. If gay marriage were legalized, your church would not be required to perform gay marriage ceremonies. So I don't really understand what makes that a legitimate argument. Can you help me make sense of that? If it's a personal disagreement based on religious reasons, why wouldn't you just personally not engage in such an activity and not belong to a church that supports it? Why does that have to extend to everyone else?

I recognize that you aren't trying to start anything, but if I actually explain WHY, that would just start OTHERS on that path of sniping and backbiting. I don't want to do all of that. People start slinging allegations of homophobia even that's not even CLOSE to being the case. It is just too sticky.