too broke to bury their dead

Kevin · #1 10-01-2009, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

You mind giving that news to the last 6 non-union, Southern native plumbers my Charlotte, NC company just laid off?

You're old enough to know the difference between statistical fact and anecdotal fact.

AlphaFrog · #2 10-01-2009, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin

You're old enough to know the difference between statistical fact and anecdotal fact.

We had a bid recently with 27 plumbing companies from 4 different states. You must have 3 bidders to open bids. Three years ago, I spent more time going to bids that didn't get opened than anything else. It's not just my company. It's worse in Detroit, but the South is not "just fine".

FHwku · #3 10-01-2009, 05:37 PM

organ donors should be buried for free. maybe then, more people would become donors. along the lines of charity and public service, i would rank organ donating up there with any living personal sacrifice.

if someone in my hometown needed money for a funeral the community or a church would take a collection. if they did something notable, heroic, or tragic, they would probably get a "...has set up a fund for the family...donations can be made at Kroger's or any First Fifth Bank."

why do they have to cremate the bodies in Detroit? can't they just get a pauper's funeral? it's dignified and inexpensive. not just a cardboard coffin and a hole in the ground.

VandalSquirrel · #4 10-01-2009, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FHwku

organ donors should be buried for free. maybe then, more people would become donors. along the lines of charity and public service, i would rank organ donating up there with any living personal sacrifice.

if someone in my hometown needed money for a funeral the community or a church would take a collection. if they did something notable, heroic, or tragic, they would probably get a "...has set up a fund for the family...donations can be made at Kroger's or any First Fifth Bank."

why do they have to cremate the bodies in Detroit? can't they just get a pauper's funeral? it's dignified and inexpensive. not just a cardboard coffin and a hole in the ground.

From my experience in dead relatives, cremation is much cheaper, the cheapest option of all. Burials require a plot, a casket, and workers to dig the hole and refill it. Cremation can be done for much less and the storage isn't as much of an issue (scattering or given to a relative). Columbariums (a crypt for ashes if you will) cost money because well, space is at a premium and it costs a lot.

However there are many hidden costs with cremation. We had to pay for a container for my dad (we had no viewing) and a cardboard box was something like $85 in addition to the cost of the urn, picking up his body (he died at home with hospice care), the actual fire, the scattering, and so on. We went with the cardboard because he'd be mad if we wasted money, he had that kind of sense of humor, and umm yeah, we were setting it on fire!

In a big city it definitely costs more for a burial as there isn't land. I can't think of any place non-military one can be buried in San Francisco, and those spots are running out. There are whole suburbs full of cemeteries, where there are towns with more dead than living.

Kevin · #5 10-01-2009, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

We had a bid recently with 27 plumbing companies from 4 different states. You must have 3 bidders to open bids. Three years ago, I spent more time going to bids that didn't get opened than anything else. It's not just my company. It's worse in Detroit, but the South is not "just fine".

I suppose it depends on what you're doing and what part of the South you're in. The fact of the matter is that domestic manufacturing is getting the hell out of hostile places like Michigan and going to places where it can actually be profitable. Plumbers and pipefitters will, I'm sure be indirect beneficiaries of that move if they are fortunate enough to be close to the new plants.

Imus · #6 10-02-2009, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin

You're old enough to know the difference between statistical fact and anecdotal fact.

Isn't it a statistical fact that the sales of Toyota and Nissan dropped just like the Big 3's sales dropped?

Kevin · #7 10-02-2009, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imus

Isn't it a statistical fact that the sales of Toyota and Nissan dropped just like the Big 3's sales dropped?

Everyone's sales dropped. Not everyone had to file for bankruptcy.

Imus · #8 10-02-2009, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin

Everyone's sales dropped. Not everyone had to file for bankruptcy.

Everyone's sales dropped? Both non-union and union sales dropped? Why did the non-union sales drop? Didn't you say it was the unions fault?

PS. Why did a great non union company like Yugo go out of business?

Kevin · #9 10-02-2009, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imus

Everyone's sales dropped? Both non-union and union sales dropped? Why did the non-union sales drop? Didn't you say it was the unions fault?

PS. Why did a great non union company like Yugo go out of business?

So Imus, what are you driving at here? That the unions played no role in the collapse of two of the Big 3? That paying out insane wages and benefits for essentially unskilled labor is a good business strategy? What exactly?

A Honda plant was just opened up in Indiana just this year. How long has it been since Michigan opened a new auto plant? Early 90's maybe? Why do yo think that is?

KSigkid · #10 10-02-2009, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin

So Imus, what are you driving at here? That the unions played no role in the collapse of two of the Big 3?

Imus/Madmax is intensely pro-union, so I think that's exactly the point he/she is driving at in his/her posts.

Kevin · #11 10-05-2009, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goldar

There (sic) pay is only a few bucks an hour more than non union workers at Toyota, Honda, or Nissan. The biggest difference in the Big 3's cost is the underfunded pensions which is management's fault. You should also blame the 20,000 other companies(mostly NON union) that also have underfunded pensions.

That's laughable. It's not just the pay, it's the rigid job descriptions, the overpayment of people like janitors, the refusal to outsource for things like janitorial services, etc. Unions hamstring companies and are the reason decent paying manufacturing jobs in the U.S. are history.

Quote:

PS. How much do union plumbers make vs non union plumbers? About double?

Actually, the plumbers and pipefitters union actually works with employers to ensure that employers receive a decent profit while providing employment. The formula (in theory) is supposed to actually make it less expensive for a company to use union labor instead of non-union. This is a good example of a union doing what all unions ought to be doing.