Has the tradition of Legacies outgrown its usefulness?

[Zillini]

This year we had a legacy PNM whose mother was deceased. Mom's pledge sisters jumped in and a bunch of them sent Intros and Recs just to make sure she was "covered". The daughter is now one of our new members.

[lyrelyre]

Originally Posted by itb

To put it bluntly, if there wasn't a quota system, wouldn't all legacies be offered a bid, provided they were of appropriate moral character? After all, I think that the legacies' mother/sister/aunt/grandmother/(and so forth) would understand if little Suzie was of dubious moral character or legal status that she would NOT be offered a bid. The real problem is that the chapters do a POOR job of talking to the family and keeping them informed, when they OUGHT to be forthright. For example, if little Suzie was told BEFORE she would not be offered a legacy bid, I'm sure little Suzie would move on. But the chapter does not always work like that. In truth, they work in secret and keep it secretive. The chapter and the national HAVE to be in communication with their members on their legacies; it's when they are NOT that problems occur.

To put it bluntly: no, all legacies would not be offered a bid if there wasn’t a quota system. Sometimes there are legacies who are perfectly nice and meet the membership criteria but do not have that elusive “fit” for which all chapters are looking. Further, most people don’t know if their daughter/niece/granddaughter is of “dubious moral character” and, as a recruitment advisor, I’m not going to be the one to slander someone to a family member even if that family member is a fellow alumna. Additionally, a chapter cannot have contact with a PNM or her family.

Originally Posted by 33girl

Once again I ask - would either of you enjoy being in a chapter with 400 members? Seriously?

Would you enjoy having a choice of only 3-4 groups at a campus of 25,000 because only the "strongest" groups have survived?

Moreover, the strongest groups aren’t going to be willing to pledge every PNM. This leads to 3-4 “strong” groups and a large number of women being left out of Greek life.

Originally Posted by TSteven

So if I understand what everyone seems to be saying, the issue seems to be that some chapters have more legacies than they can bid. That there can be legacies that are a good fit and are desirable *and* the legacy herself wants to be a member. Yet due to quota etc., she may be released.

If that is the issue, then what about the following.

HQs consider changing their rules regarding Alumnae Initiation (gasp!) so that legacies may "seek" (don't know the correct terminology) membership in their legacy sorority. If ABC currently does not allow AI, they would *now* do so *if* the women was a legacy *and* she was a good fit. A sort of special consideration or exception as the case may be.

To be clear, AI would not be a guarantee at all. And may not be offered or allowed for "just anyone".

The way I envision this is that a chapter will still cut legacies and extend bids to those they want. However, for the legacy that is cut and still wants to an ABC, she would have the ability to seek membership as an alumnae. She would not be guaranteed it, but have the ability to seek it. Thus some NPC HQs would have to change their policy on AI.

Now it is true that the girl may not have benefited by having been an undergraduate member of ABC. But if she was "groomed" to be an ABC, and really wants it, and would be a good fit as an alum, then why allow it? The undergrad chapter is not compromised at all. For what it is worth, something similar seems to work well with NPHC sororities.

Finally, my intent is not to have a "ABC does not offer AI" discussion. But to have HQs think *Outside The Box*. To discuss ways that a legacy - who truly sees herself as an ABC - have a way to be an ABC and be a production member as well. Something along this line might be a partial solution to what will most likely continue to be the *more legacies than bids* issue.

Allowing legacies to AI if they meet membership criteria would exacerbate the situation. You would potentially be creating even more legacies that could not be offered bids in the future. Not to mention that if the undergraduate chapter would have been “compromised” by her membership, I most likely do not want her as a sister through AI.

Trust me; chapters do not release PNMs, especially legacies, that they want as members. Chapters release PNMs that they would take as members and invite back the PNMs to whom they would like to offer bids.

[itb]

[QUOTE=lyrelyre;1840262] Additionally, a chapter cannot have contact with a PNM or her family.

/QUOTE]

That's another problem; a chapter SHOULD be able to contact it's alumni to inquire about a legacy (for good or for bad). And once again, an artificial limit is put in place. Common sense says it's courteous to alumni to talk about little Suzy the legacy, regardless of the subject, and probably best because some of those alumni have experience and knowledge OR INFORMATION that a 18-22 year old or a 'chapter advisor' or 'rush consultant' do NOT have.

[33girl]

Think about when you were in school though...if someone's grandma had called you asking about her granddaughter that she loves more than anything on earth, wanting to know if she got a bid. What Grandma doesn't know is that her pride and joy spent the summer partying at the FGH fraternity house, sleeping with half the brothers and doing lines of coke off their charter.

You need to put yourself in a 19 year old's position and think about how horrid that situation would be. I know we had a sister (eventually terminated) whose dad was an administrator at the college - she was the wildest girl I ever knew, and her dad blamed US for corrupting her. Nothing could have been further from the truth!! That situation was bad enough, I can't imagine what the girls go through who are dealing with hundreds of legacies (not all of whom are as squeaky clean as they appear on paper).

Sororities are collegiate groups whose members are chosen by college students. For better or worse, that's the way it needs to stay, unless the whole system is completely revamped into something more like a job or college entrance interview.

[kddani]

See itb's other 6 posts for history of his/her tour on the bitter bus.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by kddani

See itb's other 6 posts for history of his/her tour on the bitter bus.

Yeah, I know. I'm hoping maybe eventually she'll get the point, or read something that rings true.

[lyrelyre]

Originally Posted by itb

That's another problem; a chapter SHOULD be able to contact it's alumni to inquire about a legacy (for good or for bad). And once again, an artificial limit is put in place. Common sense says it's courteous to alumni to talk about little Suzy the legacy, regardless of the subject, and probably best because some of those alumni have experience and knowledge OR INFORMATION that a 18-22 year old or a 'chapter advisor' or 'rush consultant' do NOT have.

I disagree. Silence rules are in effect to keep chapters from placing pressure on a PNM and her family. They may be “artificial” and imperfect, but they’re what we have. If you can recommend something that’s legitimately better, go for it. If all you are going to do is complain and offer no workable solutions you can ride the bitter bus on out of here.

The fact remains: most people don’t know if their daughter/niece/granddaughter has a bad reputation. It’s probably a generational thing, because sisters generally do know of one another’s reputations. Like I said: I'm not calling little Suzy's mother/aunt/grandmother and telling her that little Suzy might look good on paper but she's really a skank.

[crescent&pearls]

I've been ruminating on something while reading this thread..I never thought of release figures as mandatory or arbitrary.

Release figures are based on a formula, and that formula is derived from historical return stats. The most popular chapters therefore have to release the largest number of pnms, because their stats indicate that they will very likely have their choice of their favorites accept their invitations.

If a group has a variation in their returns, they can appeal to the panhellenic advisor in charge of rush to be flexible with their return rates to maximize the chance of pledging quota right? and vice versa, a chapter having extraordinarily high and unexpected returns might be asked to whittle their invite list down for the benefit of the system, and to avoid having too many women that end up bidless.

All the chapters agree to abide by the system because its the most efficient way to manage the recruitment of a large number of new members. None of us could or would want to pledge all our legacies, but because we all promote the system to our friends and classmates and legacies we all mutually benefit from the system. It's not perfect, but it does work something along the lines of what Ronald Reagan once said..."when the tide comes in, it raises up all the boats in the harbor."

I amy not have all this exactly right, but maybe someone whose been involved more recently with the RFM can give their perspective?

[Zillini]

Originally Posted by itb

That's another problem; a chapter SHOULD be able to contact it's alumni to inquire about a legacy (for good or for bad). And once again, an artificial limit is put in place. Common sense says it's courteous to alumni to talk about little Suzy the legacy, regardless of the subject, and probably best because some of those alumni have experience and knowledge OR INFORMATION that a 18-22 year old or a 'chapter advisor' or 'rush consultant' do NOT have.

That's the purpose of the GLO's legacy introduction form (or whatever each group calls it) and Rec. This gives Grandma, Mom, or Sis the opportunity to tell a Chapter all about little Suzy before Recruitment starts.

Like 33girl said, I have no desire to call Suzy's Grandma to ask her why her sweet princess has the most alcoholic, trampy pix on Facebook I've ever seen or why she only earned a 2.1 GPA with an ACT score of 15. Nor do I or any member of my team have the time to call Grandma and the other 99 legacy PNMs' alumnae that are going through our nearly 1500 PNM Recruitment.

These are the same reasons are why I'm happy my GLO no longer requires us to make those unpleasant calls to alumnae after a legacy is released.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by Zillini

That's the purpose of the GLO's legacy introduction form (or whatever each group calls it) and Rec. This gives Grandma, Mom, or Sis the opportunity to tell a Chapter all about little Suzy before Recruitment starts.

Like 33girl said, I have no desire to call Suzy's Grandma to ask her why her sweet princess has the most alcoholic, trampy pix on Facebook I've ever seen or why she only earned a 2.1 GPA with an ACT score of 15. Nor do I or any member of my team have the time to call Grandma and the other 99 legacy PNMs' alumnae that are going through our nearly 1500 PNM Recruitment.

These are the same reasons are why I'm happy my GLO no longer requires us to make those unpleasant calls to alumnae after a legacy is released.

To be quite honest, why should we have to disclose WHY a legacy was released?

I understand that we should notify the relative of the release, but I totally disagree with having to tell them that "Suzy has questionable grades and has beer pong pics on Facebook."

As far as my sorority goes, THAT is part of Membership Selection. It's very private.

We would never tell any other PNM or her family the exact reason that she was cut, so I fail to see why we should do it for legacies.

[ADqtPiMel]

Originally Posted by Zillini

These are the same reasons are why I'm happy my GLO no longer requires us to make those unpleasant calls to alumnae after a legacy is released.

Can I tell you how pleased I was that they adopted this policy the year BEFORE I became recruitment advisor?

[honeychile]

I knew I had read an article on this very topic, and sure enough, it was from our Adelphean Magazine and is in the public domain. You can read it here.

[ForeverRoses]

Originally Posted by honeychile

I knew I had read an article on this very topic, and sure enough, it was from our Adelphean Magazine and is in the public domain. You can read it here.

Honeychile- the Adelphean is lovely. I was impressed by some of the legacy families they listed.

I was curious about one of the legacy policies- "Any chapter not at Total the term before the formal recruitment period must extend a bid to any legacy participating in formal recruitment. Any exception to this must be approved by the District Team Director".

I haven't heard of that policy with any other group.