Gallup Poll says majority of Americans identify as pro-life

[SWTXBelle]

Pssst . . .vote in the poll!

[VandalSquirrel]

I'm Pro:
teaching people about their bodies
giving equal access to affordable and effective birth control for men and women
stopping sexual violence against women

[BabyPiNK_FL]

I'm totally "Pro-life" I respect the life of the mother and what she chooses to do with her body.

[Jill1228]

Originally Posted by BabyPiNK_FL

I'm totally "Pro-life" I respect the life of the mother and what she chooses to do with her body.

Yeah, that...especially the last part! So I guess you can call me pro choice

[SWTXBelle]

Personally, I think the "pro-life" and "pro-choice" tags aren't the most accurate way to tag either side. I prefer "anti-abortion" or "pro-abortion" because they get rid of a great deal of the posturing and get right to the heart of the discussion. (And spare me the "I want abortion to be legal but I'm not pro-abortion " statements- when the discussion is whether or not abortion should be legal, you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you support the legality of abortion, you are pro. If you don't, you are anti.)

I would expect GC to scew heavier towards the "pro-choice" side of the Gallup poll question just based on past discussions.

[SydneyK]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

I prefer "anti-abortion" or "pro-abortion" because they get rid of a great deal of the posturing and get right to the heart of the discussion. (And spare me the "I want abortion to be legal but I'm not pro-abortion " statements- when the discussion is whether or not abortion should be legal, you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you support the legality of abortion, you are pro. If you don't, you are anti.)

I think this is oversimplifying things. If Ann thinks a woman should have a right to choose abortion, that doesn't mean that Ann is pro-abortion. It could just mean that Ann thinks the government shouldn't get to decide what she does or doesn't do with her body. If you're looking for different terms for the debate, perhaps anti-abortion vs. anti-government would be more appropriate (solely in regards to the abortion debate).

I just think there are two very different arguments in play. There's the moral debate and there's the political debate. I think it's fair to say that some people who are pro-choice have that opinion because of the political/governmental concerns involved. Some of those same people might be pro-life from a moral perspective (meaning that if they were ever the one making the choice, they would always choose life).

/end soapbox

[SWTXBelle]

That's just it - I am addressing the legal question (that's why it is in News & Politics). You can get distracted in all kinds of philosophical or moral debates, but the question at hand is geared towards the political. Of course, there is a moral issue, just as there is one when discussing murder. or marriage, or a variety of other subjects that have both a moral and legal aspect. Society enforces a certain morality through the laws they pass and enforce. I don't know that smoking is a good analogy - it certainly doesn't approach the moral import of a human life and whether that life should continue or not. I think most anti-smoking legislation has been approached through the idea that the rights of non-smokers should not be enfringed upon by smokers. Different animal, I think. The closest you get with the abortion debate is juggling the rights of the mother vs. the rights of the unborn - and then you get into the slippery slope of when does a fetus become a baby (much less clear-cut now thanks to modern medical technology).

Either you support the legality of abortion, or you don't. You can be "pro" legislation (like, oh, abortion) and not necessarily want one yourself (think of all those men voting for it!) The whys and wherefores can cloud the issue - but what states and ultimately the federal courts have to decide is whether or not abortion should be legal, AND if it is legal, should there be restrictions or limits? Read the whole Gallup Poll report - it is very interesting. Many who support the idea of legal abortion do so with some reservations - in other words, they believe there should be some restrictions. I'm sorry if I did not clarify - it is the political identification that is being discussed, at least for the most part.

eta - and upon reflection, I'm curious. For those of you who say you are anti-abortion in the sense that you would never have one, or feel it is immoral, but say you are pro-legal abortion, what is the rationale? I would assume (although you can correct me if I'm wrong) that if you are anti-abortion on a moral or personal level it is because you believe a human life is being ended and you believe that is wrong. If that is indeed the case, why would you support the right for others to have an abortion? And do you think that right should be unlimited (abortion up to the time the baby's head crowns) or are there limits you think the government should impose?

I am quite sincere when I say that I can't understand having one morality concerning human life for yourself, but another for society as a whole. I come from a very "pro-choice" family that has marched for PP - I myself at one time identified as pro-choice, but once I saw gypsyboot's picture at 6 weeks, that was it. That little peanut was my daughter, and could be nothing else. I understand those who say that a fetus does not exist as a human being until ________ (fill in the blank - viability is popular; others have other yardsticks) and thus can be aborted until that time, but I don't understand those who say yes, it is a human life, but the mother has the right to decide whether it lives or dies.

[texas*princess]

Originally Posted by SydneyK

I think this is oversimplifying things. If Ann thinks a woman should have a right to choose abortion, that doesn't mean that Ann is pro-abortion. It could just mean that Ann thinks the government shouldn't get to decide what she does or doesn't do with her body. If you're looking for different terms for the debate, perhaps anti-abortion vs. anti-government would be more appropriate (solely in regards to the abortion debate).

I just think there are two very different arguments in play. There's the moral debate and there's the political debate. I think it's fair to say that some people who are pro-choice have that opinion because of the political/governmental concerns involved. Some of those same people might be pro-life from a moral perspective (meaning that if they were ever the one making the choice, they would always choose life).

/end soapbox

I think using pro-abortion and anti-abortion is just a gross oversimplification.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Personally, I think the "pro-life" and "pro-choice" tags aren't the most accurate way to tag either side.

I agree.

(Which is why I didn't vote in the poll. )

I prefer "anti-abortion" or "pro-abortion" because they get rid of a great deal of the posturing and get right to the heart of the discussion. (And spare me the "I want abortion to be legal but I'm not pro-abortion " statements- when the discussion is whether or not abortion should be legal, you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you support the legality of abortion, you are pro. If you don't, you are anti.)

No, no, no, no, no, NO! Sorry, but I won't spare you.

It's pretty simple: pro-anything means that in favor of that thing -- that you think that thing is good in and of itself.

Are you pro-cigarettes or anti-cigarettes? If you think that cigarettes are disgusting and dangerous -- deadly even -- but you still think they should be legal and that people can choose for themselves, then are you going to describe yourself as "pro-cigarettes"? Probably not, since it is not cigarettes themselves that you are in favor of.

As Sydney says, it possible for someone to be anti-abortion (morally, ethically or religiously) and pro-choice (politically -- believing that the government should have a limited voice in the question). I know plenty of people who fit that description.

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I agree.

(Which is why I didn't vote in the poll. )

MC, you should have vote option #3!

[BigRedBeta]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

I prefer "anti-abortion" or "pro-abortion"

That reminds me of Boys' State when one guy referred to himself as pro-abortion, then made campaign speeches proclaiming 'abortions for EVERYONE including dudes'.

I'm pro-choice, but I don't think abortion is something that should be a frequent occurrence. In my ideal world, we'd give all the education we could, as well as tools like a multitude of birth control options, to prevent unwanted pregnancies. As a physician, the legality of abortion is important to me because women who want to terminate the pregnancy will, it's just a matter of whether they'll do it safely or not. Talk to any really old school OB/GYN (which of course their numbers are dwindling) who practiced or was trained in the pre - Roe v. Wade, and you'll hear horror stories of entire OB/GYN floors of inner city hospitals dedicated just to women with attempted abortions and the complications that arose from those attempts. Perforated uteri, punctured internal organs, sepsis, necrosis, death...bad bad stuff.

If anything, the pro-lifers, especially the ones that don't want sex ed in schools, are the ones who want their cake and to eat it too (and if they're anti-welfare, whoo, watch out). They want to make it so no one knows anything pregnancy, can't end it, and then is burdened with a child but can't receive help from the state. Talk about setting women up for failure with no way out...

[SWTXBelle]

MC - the original Gallup poll asked whether the respondents would identify themselves as pro-life or pro-choice. Yes, there is a problem with the question. I tracked the original language because I was discussing that particular poll.

BigRedBeta, I am familiar with many programs here in Houston, supported by anti-abortion groups, which offer free medical care and other support for pregnant women facing an unwanted pregnancy. I am also a big supporter of the Edna Gladney Center, which even offers mothers -to -be the chance to finish high school or go to college. http://www.adoptionsbygladney.com/

I don't believe in the kind of blackmail my sister espouses - "Pay me to raise this child or I'll kill it" essentially. There is a choice that can be made by those who do not wish to raise or cannot support a child - adoption. Right to Life groups exist to make sure every pregnant woman is able to bring a child into this world. That doesn't mean there is a moral obligation to enable every pregnant woman to suddenly be able to raise that child - hence the emphasis on adoption. It's a right-to-life (for the child), not a right-to-lifestyle (for the mother). And I think it fair to say that most of those women considering abortion are doing so because they feel they CAN'T have a child - so it would seem the best solution for most (not all, of course) is to enable them to have the child with the least amount of disruption to their lives.

Let me interject here that I think most of us fall somewhere between the extremes of NO ABORTIONS EVER and NO LIMIT AT ALL ON ABORTIONS. That said, why do y'all think there has been the shift in self-identification seen in this poll?

[ThetaPrincess24]

Originally Posted by BigRedBeta

That reminds me of Boys' State when one guy referred to himself as pro-abortion, then made campaign speeches proclaiming 'abortions for EVERYONE including dudes'.

I'm pro-choice, but I don't think abortion is something that should be a frequent occurrence. In my ideal world, we'd give all the education we could, as well as tools like a multitude of birth control options, to prevent unwanted pregnancies. As a physician, the legality of abortion is important to me because women who want to terminate the pregnancy will, it's just a matter of whether they'll do it safely or not. Talk to any really old school OB/GYN (which of course their numbers are dwindling) who practiced or was trained in the pre - Roe v. Wade, and you'll hear horror stories of entire OB/GYN floors of inner city hospitals dedicated just to women with attempted abortions and the complications that arose from those attempts. Perforated uteri, punctured internal organs, sepsis, necrosis, death...bad bad stuff.

If anything, the pro-lifers, especially the ones that don't want sex ed in schools, are the ones who want their cake and to eat it too (and if they're anti-welfare, whoo, watch out). They want to make it so no one knows anything pregnancy, can't end it, and then is burdened with a child but can't receive help from the state. Talk about setting women up for failure with no way out...

I am one of many opinions. I am pro-life and anti-abortion. I recently changed my opinion on the death penalty. But in saying that, I am pro-sex education in schools though I'm on the fence as to how early it should start and what all it should include exactly. I am pro birth control--shots, pills, condoms, implants, IUD, sponge, foam, lubricants, and having "tubes tied" (the actual medical term for that slips my mind right now). I also believe with the exception of having tubes tied, the rest should be available to the public for free with no questions asked (this includes dispensers in school restrooms).

Abortion is currently legal in the US. I believe despite my preference, it will stay legal for quite a bit longer. So in the meantime,I am all for restrictions being in place: parental notification for minors wishing to have an abortion and be placed on any form of birth control that includes hormones and a medical procedure (such as implants & IUD), partial birth abortion bans, and women being counseled on all of their options fully in an unbiased way on all available options--keeping and raising the child, having and placing the child up for adoption, abortion, and the resources that are available. I work with this organization here http://www.assurancecare.org/. They provide a lot of free counseling, testing, abortion information, options for women and girls who are unsure. They dont perform abortions here, but will tell you where to go to get one should that be the choice made. Women who make the choice to abort shoudl also have access to free post-procedure counseling as well, should they begin to have feelings or regret and depression. It should not shun them or belittle them.

Regarding the welfare/government assistance debate. Sometimes this is necessary in order to help the mother/family get back on their feet. What I have a problem with are those who are on government assistance, know about how pregnancy is achieved, have access to freebie birth control methods, dont care, and continue having more children in order to get a bigger check from the government, and encourage their teen girls to continue the cycle and do the same. I encountered this scenario more times than I could count on a weekly basis in my last job. I wont continue to go on about this because I can write novels, but know atleast in my area the abuse of this system far outweighs those who are on it legitimately, and reform is needed.

[ThetaPrincess24]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Personally, I think the "pro-life" and "pro-choice" tags aren't the most accurate way to tag either side. I prefer "anti-abortion" or "pro-abortion" because they get rid of a great deal of the posturing and get right to the heart of the discussion. (And spare me the "I want abortion to be legal but I'm not pro-abortion " statements- when the discussion is whether or not abortion should be legal, you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you support the legality of abortion, you are pro. If you don't, you are anti.)

I agree with that!