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Originally Posted by msl2008
i think in both instances whether you haze or do not haze you will get good members and you will get bad members...
i guess it's with the fact that i always saw greeks as being beyond the fact of who you are or who you know or what your gpa is but it could be something where people from various backgrounds can all start with a clean slate and go thru the same process and not have it matter who you were before pledging...
maybe that's what gets at me is the fact that i look at a lot of greek organizations with the same types of people and think, "oh, these guys or girls got in b/c of who they knew or how high their gpa was." giving an equal chance by going thru a physical and psychological pledge process would be fair imo. people will say that's a disadvantage to fat people or whatnot but in those cases you would structure the program to meet their needs. the whole point is pushing people to a higher level that they previously thought was impossible and in that regard, i think physical pledging would be beneficial as a confidence booster.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msl2008
well my whole point is that physical pledging would be subjective. i would not expect a fat guy to do 50 pushups at once or run 3 miles but at the first event i would probably give him 10 pushups and have him run half a mile and try to build him up eventually to the 50 level goal. thus, even though it's a "punishment" for not knowing information or not completing a task, it can definitely serve as a confidence booster when at the end of the process he sees how far he's come. on the same token, when a football player starts pledging, first event i would tell him to do 50 and work him to 100 by the end of his process. the whole point i'm trying to make is push people to their limits. i'm not sure if you guys can understand what i'm thinking but i think the ideal pledge process would involve both mental and physical tasks so that way you get a vast # of different types of people. and i know what you're thinking kansas city when you say that physical would only let the "strong, fit" pledges survive but that's why i think it's important to incorporate other aspects. having philanthropies, study sessions, w/e is great, but i think it should be supplemented by something more physical. any ideas on a hybrid system to challenge all aspects of a persons being?
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You said whether you haze or not, you'll have good members and bad members. So what's the point in hazing if everything will end up the same anyway?
You said you basically dismiss who people were before they joined your organization. Everyone can start with a "clean slate," as you've so clearly stated a few times. You then say that you look at Greek organizations with similar members and think that they only got in because of who they know. I don't really see the difference between a Greek organization with similar members who were only accepted because of who their friends are, and an organization that plans to strip away any individuality the pledges had before they joined the fraternity. And by hazing, you're eliminating all of the guys who joined for the academic, philanthropic and social advancements, and you're left with the people who have no sense of self worth by subjecting themselves to these ridiculous physical requirements. THAT is a Greek organization that is made up of similar members.
And please read the last sentence of the first post, and the beginning of the second. You said that physical pledging is a confidence booster. You then say that you wouldn't have a larger new member do as much as a new member who is more fit. What a GREAT confidence booster. For a guy who already knows he has physical limits, you're then going to point it out to all of his peers. And PLEASE don't argue that will motivate him to do more and maybe lose weight.
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