Second Presidential Debate

[Nanners52674]

Yawnnnn. . . . With the exception of one question, when asked first to McCain if health care is a privilege, right or responsibility? McCain responded that it is a responsibility which i completely agree with but he offered no real follow up at to who is responsible. Then Obama answered and right off the bat he said i believe health care is a RIGHT. I'll admit im biased I've liked Obama from the beginning but never really had a negative thing to say about McCain I just liked Obama better. But for McCain tonight to not be able to say that health care is a right is really disappointing to me as a college student who upon graduation will be with out health care unless i get a job that provides it.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by Nanners52674

Yawnnnn. . . . With the exception of one question, when asked first to McCain if health care is a privilege, right or responsibility? McCain responded that it is a responsibility which i completely agree with but he offered no real follow up at to who is responsible. Then Obama answered and right off the bat he said i believe health care is a RIGHT. I'll admit im biased I've liked Obama from the beginning but never really had a negative thing to say about McCain I just liked Obama better. But for McCain tonight to not be able to say that health care is a right is really disappointing to me as a college student who upon graduation will be with out health care unless i get a job that provides it.

So you heard what you wanted to hear? I don't mean that to be harsh, either - this just seems like a narrow response.

Why on Earth would a commodity be a right? This isn't an abstraction, like "food" - this is an actual, pay-for-services commodity. There's a reason why doctors make good money, right? Remember - "health care" for the purposes of the question is absolutely not the same as "medical care" - there is a very specific meaning at play here (namely, insurance coverage).

[Virtual Violet]

Originally Posted by Nanners52674

Yawnnnn. . . . With the exception of one question, when asked first to McCain if health care is a privilege, right or responsibility? McCain responded that it is a responsibility which i completely agree with but he offered no real follow up at to who is responsible. Then Obama answered and right off the bat he said i believe health care is a RIGHT. I'll admit im biased I've liked Obama from the beginning but never really had a negative thing to say about McCain I just liked Obama better. But for McCain tonight to not be able to say that health care is a right is really disappointing to me as a college student who upon graduation will be with out health care unless i get a job that provides it.

I just thought that McCain's answer to that question summed up his campaign.....it was another missed opportunity to gain an advantage and show the public he gets what middle America is going through right now. McCain's answer totally goes to the perception that he is "out of touch". I don't know how EITHER candidate could miss the opportunity to say that Americans have a RIGHT to health care coverage, even if each candidate differs on HOW and WHO should pay for it? Even if his answer were B.S., I would have at least apprciated it if McCain tried to show he understands that health care coverage is a HUGE problem in this country (and a $5K tax break wouldn't even BEGIN to cover the premiums or co-pays if you got so much as a broken arm). Even when McCain answered health care coverage was a RESPONSIBILITY, I didn't hear WHOSE responsibility he thought it was? (If anyone heard it differently, feel free to respond)

[CrackerBarrel]

Originally Posted by Virtual Violet

I just thought that McCain's answer to that question summed up his campaign.....it was another missed opportunity to gain an advantage and show the public he gets what middle America is going through right now. McCain's answer totally goes to the perception that he is "out of touch". I don't know how EITHER candidate could miss the opportunity to say that Americans have a RIGHT to health care coverage, even if each candidate differs on HOW and WHO should pay for it? Even if his answer were B.S., I would have at least apprciated it if McCain tried to show he understands that health care coverage is a HUGE problem in this country (and a $5K tax break wouldn't even BEGIN to cover the premiums or co-pays if you got so much as a broken arm). Even when McCain answered health care coverage was a RESPONSIBILITY, I didn't hear WHOSE responsibility he thought it was? (If anyone heard it differently, feel free to respond)

My opinion - not speaking for any political group here, just what I think. Health insurance is only "a right" in the sense that you have a right to have it if you want, you are welcome to get health insurance. It's not a right in the sense that you should just wait for someone to come insure you. We aren't a nanny state, watch out for yourself instead of expecting the government to save the day. It is a responsibility - if you are a responsible person you will take that responsibility and either go get a job with health benefits or make health insurance fit in your budget.

[Virtual Violet]

Originally Posted by CrackerBarrel

My opinion - not speaking for any political group here, just what I think. Health insurance is only "a right" in the sense that you have a right to have it if you want, you are welcome to get health insurance. It's not a right in the sense that you should just wait for someone to come insure you. We aren't a nanny state, watch out for yourself instead of expecting the government to save the day. It is a responsibility - if you are a responsible person you will take that responsibility and either go get a job with health benefits or make health insurance fit in your budget.

I believe health care coverage is a right in the sense that all Americans should have the OPPORTUNITY to have health insurance coverage and be able to AFFORD to pay for it and that we are treated FAIRLY when the insurance company has to pay the claims. I'm not expecting anything to be HANDED out to the masses with no personal responsibility to maintain coverage. (Exception: I think all children should have some type of coverage)

[CrackerBarrel]

Originally Posted by Virtual Violet

I believe health care coverage is a right in the sense that all Americans should have the OPPORTUNITY to have health insurance coverage and be able to AFFORD to pay for it and that we are treated FAIRLY when the insurance company has to pay the claims. I'm not expecting anything to be HANDED out to the masses with no personal responsibility to maintain coverage. (Exception: I think all children should have some type of coverage)

I don't agree with fixed pricing, I'm a big free market economics fan and just don't see a way to do it. You can either socialize it (ick) or put a cap on prices, but if you cap prices than you will just see a benefit cut because in a speculative industry like insurance you have to make enough money to be able to pay out a lot of policies at once if need be. It's further complicated by the fact that insurance companies are themselves insured and if you cap their pricing than you may keep them from being able to afford to be reinsured.

But I agree that we should see some changes in pay out structures, people are treated unfairly by their insurance companies.

[nittanyalum]

Originally Posted by CrackerBarrel

if you are a responsible person you will take that responsibility and either go get a job with health benefits or make health insurance fit in your budget.

CB, this feeds right into the "out of touch with real people's problems" argument. There is so much wrong and uninformed in your statement I don't even know where to begin.

[CrackerBarrel]

Originally Posted by nittanyalum

CB, this feeds right into the "out of touch with real people's problems" argument. There is so much wrong and uninformed in your statement I don't even know where to begin.

It's a pick yourself up by your bootstraps attitude. I guarantee you that most people buy things that they could do without if they had to pick between that and health care. I agree, health care is important, important enough that you do what it takes to get insurance. Now I understand that there are going to be some emergency situations where people can't make ends meet on health insurance for a short time. If you have a medical crisis during that time then most private hospitals have a charity fund that is used to treat such emergency situations and there are lots of other charities that do the same. And for non-emergency medical care in those times of crisis, I know in my area there are a number of low-income and free clinics that are run by some of the big doctors offices in the area and staffed by either volunteers from amongst their employees or employees who are paid to do a certain number of hours a month at the clinic. You rely on the goodness of people, not the goodness of the government. That's the role for charity to play in my opinion.

And I do support the government facilitating the creation of risk pools so that small businesses can group together to improve their bargaining position with insurance companies and make it a better assumption of risk for the company by having a larger coverage pool to pay in. That alone would allow a lot of additional businesses to provide health care. I think more businesses should be providing health insurance because it's in their best interest to have a healthy workforce and where it's possible to help them provide insurance without undermining the market system we should do so.

[AOII Angel]

I have to disagree about having employers insure their employees. This is one of the best ways to assure that everyone- whether sick or well has access to good insurance. It is much harder to find insurance as a person with medical issues when you go into it alone. The lovely thing about group insurance policies is that it evens out the risk. The insurance company can give a decent rate because they can lump healthy and sick patients together. Also, insurance companies cannot then dump a single employee who may be using a lot of health care resources because the group policy doesn't allow them to exclude one patient.

I actually couldn't watch to entire debate...both parties ignored the questions frequently and went on their talking point tangents. One thing I did notice before turning off the tv, however, is that John McCain looked like a nursing home patient shuffling around the stage, especially against a healthy looking Barak Obama.

P.S. McCain's tax plan does call for an increase in taxes. He wants us to pay taxes on the health insurance benefits given to us by our employers, a benefit that is currently tax exempt.

[agzg]

I do have to say, Obama did a really good job at not showing any emotion while McCain was talking.

However, that may have cut some of the passion out when he was answering.

Boyfriend asked me "WTH, so they're not doing podiums anymore?" I explained to him that that was what McCain wanted - he said "Why? McCain looks OLDER when he's not behind a podium."

Has anyone else noticed that Obama seems to have aged a little bit through this campaign? If he's elected, his hair is going to be completely white after his first term.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by alphagamzetagam

I do have to say, Obama did a really good job at not showing any emotion while McCain was talking.

However, that may have cut some of the passion out when he was answering.

Boyfriend asked me "WTH, so they're not doing podiums anymore?" I explained to him that that was what McCain wanted - he said "Why? McCain looks OLDER when he's not behind a podium."

Has anyone else noticed that Obama seems to have aged a little bit through this campaign? If he's elected, his hair is going to be completely white after his first term.

have you seen clinton and bush?


LOL

[BetteDavisEyes]

Originally Posted by alphagamzetagam

Has anyone else noticed that Obama seems to have aged a little bit through this campaign? If he's elected, his hair is going to be completely white after his first term.

I discussed this with a friend who teaches Political Science at the local Community College and it was his theory that this was likely done on purpose by his "people" because an older man (though not as old as McCain) projects confidence, experience, and it's harder for some voters to vote for someone that looks as young as they do. He insists that Clinton did the same thing when he was first running for office b/c of his age.

Me personally? I think my friend has a valid point but I also think that the stress of taking on such a massive job like running for office takes its toll.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by BetteDavisEyes

Me personally? I think my friend has a valid point but I also think that the stress of taking on such a massive job like running for office takes its toll.

I'd agree. I don't think there's ever been a President (in recent history - obviously I can't vouch for Washington et al because they wore wigs) who has not aged significantly during his Presidency, be it four years or eight.

[AGDee]

They do always age a lot. Except for Reagan (who was clearly dyeing his hair), they all leave office gray.

Is a right only a right if it's in the Constitution? Hmmm. After all, the Equal Rights Amendment was never passed, but I think most agree that women have rights equal to men.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by AGDee

They do always age a lot. Except for Reagan (who was clearly dyeing his hair), they all leave office gray.

Yep - and Reagan left with freaking Alzheimer's, so I think he supports the general rule too.

Is a right only a right if it's in the Constitution? Hmmm. After all, the Equal Rights Amendment was never passed, but I think most agree that women have rights equal to men.

Again, this is definitely an issue where we're all using a different definition of "right."

Legally, something is only a "right" if it is protected or guaranteed by government mandate. However, obviously there is a more 'colloquial' sense that is just as (if not more) important to most. Which one do we want the Presidential candidates to deal with? I'm not 100% sure I know how I feel, to be honest.