Question About Quotas

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by LionInMI

Oh, I'm going to get myself in trouble if I get deeper into this, I probably should have stayed out of it, but I just couldn't help but comment on behalf of the chapters that sometimes have to fight against the release figures tide. Not to say release figures are not positive, I do see the good they can do in the overall process. But they can also create the expectation that since the bigger chapters are being forced to cut heavy and early, that smaller chapters should conversely take anyone that "trickles down" all throughout recruitment. The process is called membership SELECTION for a reason and the chapter members should still have the ultimate say in who they want to bid.

Absolutely.

I wonder if there's a way for the system to accommodate this issue. I mean, at the point we're using algorithms to look at individual chapter numbers, couldn't "they" program in a variable for basically unqualified PNMs?

I really don't have that much of an issue with trying really hard to place all the girls who want to go through, but whatever hardship this philosophy creates should be born equally by the groups.

Sure it's a hardship for top groups to cut more girls early, no doubt, but I'm not sure it's equal to having to invite all the girls who were cut by the other groups back.

[AGDee]

Basically unqualified PNMs should not get into a chapter. We are selective by definition. We have standards for membership and a woman who does not meet those standards can cause far more trouble than having one less member causes. A major drama queen, major slut or major risk management risk shouldn't get in just because of numbers. A woman who doesn't meet grade requirements shouldn't get in just because of numbers. The psycho crying girl that KSUViolet has told us about shouldn't get in because of numbers. There are limits. Should struggling chapters be more open to a young woman who is more shy and maybe had a hard time shining during formal recruitment? Sure. Should they take the girl that's done the walk of shame from every fraternity house by the third week of her freshman year? no way.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by AGDee

Basically unqualified PNMs should not get into a chapter. We are selective by definition. We have standards for membership and a woman who does not meet those standards can cause far more trouble than having one less member causes. A major drama queen, major slut or major risk management risk shouldn't get in just because of numbers. A woman who doesn't meet grade requirements shouldn't get in just because of numbers. The psycho crying girl that KSUViolet has told us about shouldn't get in because of numbers. There are limits. Should struggling chapters be more open to a young woman who is more shy and maybe had a hard time shining during formal recruitment? Sure. Should they take the girl that's done the walk of shame from every fraternity house by the third week of her freshman year? no way.

I really agree with this. I just want to clarify my last post.

It seems like RFs could account for unqualified PNMs and allow for all chapters to just straight up release a certain percentage of girls. And it seems to me that release methodology could do this and still function primarily as it does.

But in instances where the college is putting pressure on some chapters to cut no one, even the type of girls you describe (probably because they want to say they have 100% placement), I see no reason why only "struggling" chapters should be pressured to accept sketchy members. If the campus folks want everybody placed, place the undesirables equally.

You want quota additions? We got your quota additions. And then maybe everyone would be fired up enough to stand up to the pressure from the campus leadership pushing placement. It's easy to say placing everyone is a noble goal when you are required to make a lot of cuts. It's never going to affect you.

[FSUZeta]

am i understanding it right that chapters with traditionally lower return rates are not allowed to drop pnms -that they have to invite back everyone?

on a different note, chapters with higher return rates aren't just dropping undesirable pnms-lots of times girls any sorority would love to have are dropped because of lack of recommendations or because they just fell through the cracks.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

am i understanding it right that chapters with traditionally lower return rates are not allowed to drop pnms -that they have to invite back everyone?

on a different note, chapters with higher return rates aren't just dropping undesirable pnms-lots of times girls any sorority would love to have are dropped because of lack of recommendations or because they just fell through the cracks.

I didn't know it myself, but apparently based on what was said here, at some campuses, the pressure is on some chapters not to drop anyone. The invite targets for them would include the whole remaining pool of PNMS and since they can be penalized for not sticking to them if they cut too many (which I didn't know before), they are in a tough spot.

But absolutely, some chapters are compelled to release outstanding PNMs. And I'd say at some very competitive recruitments, almost all chapters have to release some highly qualified PNMs at one point or another.

[breathesgelatin]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

I didn't know it myself, but apparently based on what was said here, at some campuses, the pressure is on some chapters not to drop anyone. The invite targets for them would include the whole remaining pool of PNMS and since they can be penalized for not sticking to them if they cut too many (which I didn't know before), they are in a tough spot.

But absolutely, some chapters are compelled to release outstanding PNMs. And I'd say at some very competitive recruitments, almost all chapters have to release some highly qualified PNMs at one point or another.

To answer FSUZeta's question and also to build on UGAalum94's comments, there are definitely chapters that are "recommended" to invite back 100% of all PNMs all nights of recruitment. This would, in an ideal world, ensure 100% placement. How "strong" this recommendation is varies based on campus. At some places there are penalties, at some there's nothing more than a stern chat with the Panhel advisor. The thing is the advisor knows that anyone the chapter cuts is likely to completely "fall through" recruitment and not get a bid. I'll speak to my own chapter's situation. We would cut a variety of girls - some of whom were just really really rude and condescending to us because they didn't want to join. Panhel didn't so much care if we cut them because they were going to go somewhere else anyway - or if they got cut elsewhere they still certainly weren't joining us. It was the questionable awkward obese girls (to be frank) that the Panhel advisor got really worked up about because she knew someone was going to have to break it to them they'd been cut everywhere. Pretty much if we cut them that was sure to be what would happen.

Release figures, I believe, really help mid-tier groups (which is great!) more than the lower-tier groups. Sadly many PNMs will just not consider them, even if they're cut from the top-tier houses sooner.

Having said all that, I actually believe it's a much better idea to stick to the release figures and cut as few people as possible. I think a lot of chapters get the "quality over quantity" mentality and dig themselves into a numbers hole they'll never get out of (depending somewhat on the support level and philosophy of their national office). My philosophy is that you can CREATE the quality, but you have to have numbers in order to just be there and compete. You can really structure programming that increases the quality of some of your "marginal" PNMs. That said, there does have to be a balance. I don't think any chapter should be forced to take a PNM they don't want. I just think some chapters get too cut-happy thinking "quality quality quality"... They expect a lot from freshmen women, frankly, and aren't using the member development process enough to really create the women they want to have.

/soap box

[breathesgelatin]

Originally Posted by LionInMI

This is what COR is for. I believe a chapter has to understand that if they cut during formal recruitment (and not crazy cuts, just "good" cuts that they know have to be made) and don't get quota, they will be recruiting the rest of the year. And the positive spin we give our women (so that they'll keep recruiting and having NM classes throughout the year) is that FR really limits who they can bring in to the chapter, they only have the pool of registered women to work with. But COR lets them hand-pick their other NMs from the other 14,000 women on campus who didn't go through FR. Their informal NM classes have always been SPECTACULAR. And with every growth with these fantastic COR classes, they've done better and better in FR. In fact, in some small way, while I can't wait for them to take quota in FR in the near future, I'll miss their ability to handpick additional great women that they KNOW are Alpha Gams.

This really varies with campus. At some campuses, COR is not a viable option for the sororities. They need to get the girls they want to get during formal recruitment. That's why I think it's more important to get the girls and then do tons of member development - at least if COR isn't really an option for you.