Sonics owner tells NBA he wants to move team to Oklahoma City

[Rudey]

Owners will push for a new stadium every 5 years. They'll generally ask for something that is larger. What that means is a stadium that has less seats but more luxury boxes. They'll also push for bigger portions of sales from things like concessions. How will they finance it? By forcing the city to issue public bonds. At the same time, the public sees no benefit, traffic becomes an issue, other businesses suffer, etc.

So let them move. In fact, encourage them to move.

-Rudey

[PeppyGPhiB]

As of yesterday afternoon's court ruling, it's official: the "Sonics" are moving to OK City. Feelings here in Seattle are mixed.

[Kevin]

Feelings in OKC really aren't.

FWIW, I think Seattle made out very well on the settlement.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Feelings in OKC really aren't.

FWIW, I think Seattle made out very well on the settlement.

In the sense that they got an assload of money, sure - however, now they have to wait for the crumbling abortion of the Memphis Grizzlies to pack up and move to Seattle in a few years so the fans can endure about 6 years of losing then OJ Mayo packing up and hauling ass to LA (all under the tidy moniker "Sonics" that city officials are so proud to keep), while the goodwill of the fan base is absolutely pissed on in the interim, so there's that side too.

Enjoy your new owner - remember, though, that the cackling douche will come for more cash as soon as feasible.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

In the sense that they got an assload of money, sure - however, now they have to wait for the crumbling abortion of the Memphis Grizzlies to pack up and move to Seattle in a few years so the fans can endure about 6 years of losing then OJ Mayo packing up and hauling ass to LA (all under the tidy moniker "Sonics" that city officials are so proud to keep), while the goodwill of the fan base is absolutely pissed on in the interim, so there's that side too.

Enjoy your new owner - remember, though, that the cackling douche will come for more cash as soon as feasible.

Clay Bennett's family has been involved in Oklahoma City since his wife's great-great grandfather reputedly packed up his brothel in Denver (I can't verify that, but I have heard it), moved to OKC and started up a Newspaper. I've never met the man, but I know many who do. He's by all accounts a pretty decent person.

As far as having his hand out, the city has already provided him with an arena built in '95, which is getting a $150M makeover this Summer, courtesy of a recent bond issue.

I'm sure he'll be back for more cash -- and I'm also quite sure that the people of Oklahoma City will happily fork it over. We've had some pretty good success with public works projects over the last couple of decades and many see an NBA franchise as confirmation that our sales tax and bond dollars have been well-spent.

As far as Bennett ever turning a profit on that team, considering the amount he is out at this point (350M for the purchase of the team and up to 75M to move), that's probably not going to happen for awhile.

[PeppyGPhiB]

How many people live in Oklahoma City and the surrounding area? I know folks have said that the Hornets games had good attendance when they were there, but that was a limited engagement and a novelty. Novelty wears off; what happens when the team isn't new anymore, the team stinks, and ticket prices go up? Is the population of that area big enough to support the team? Or are they going to have to rely on the same small core of people to go to every game?

The Key Arena is essentially a new arena. Not on the outside, since it was the original Coliseum, but the inside was completely gutted in the 90s. Why would we want to pay another $250 MILLION to renovate it again just 10 or 15 years later? We renovated it the first time according to what the Sonics owners wanted, and the past several years they haven't even come close to selling it out. In the end many Seattlites just got tired of the constant whining from team owners, especially the owners from out of state that I think everyone knew would want to move the team - that was the first thing I thought of when I heard that some out-of-towner had bought the Sonics.

At least we got to keep the nickname, colors, etc. so that we can bring back the Sonics another time if we want to. I'd personally much rather have a NHL team.

[Rudey]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Clay Bennett's family has been involved in Oklahoma City since his wife's great-great grandfather reputedly packed up his brothel in Denver (I can't verify that, but I have heard it), moved to OKC and started up a Newspaper. I've never met the man, but I know many who do. He's by all accounts a pretty decent person.

As far as having his hand out, the city has already provided him with an arena built in '95, which is getting a $150M makeover this Summer, courtesy of a recent bond issue.

I'm sure he'll be back for more cash -- and I'm also quite sure that the people of Oklahoma City will happily fork it over. We've had some pretty good success with public works projects over the last couple of decades and many see an NBA franchise as confirmation that our sales tax and bond dollars have been well-spent.

As far as Bennett ever turning a profit on that team, considering the amount he is out at this point (350M for the purchase of the team and up to 75M to move), that's probably not going to happen for awhile.

You are so ridiculous it's hilarious.

OKC is filled with a bunch of idiots if they think their tax dollars are well spent on this and you are amazing for thinking someone just LOVES losing money on a sports team. Heck if you love losing money so much why don't you offer to purchase some of the liabilities off Bennett...I'm sure since it's so unprofitable he'd gladly turn it over to you.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB

How many people live in Oklahoma City and the surrounding area? I know folks have said that the Hornets games had good attendance when they were there, but that was a limited engagement and a novelty. Novelty wears off; what happens when the team isn't new anymore, the team stinks, and ticket prices go up? Is the population of that area big enough to support the team? Or are they going to have to rely on the same small core of people to go to every game?

We're about a 1.5M MSA.

It's tough to speculate as to how we'll support a 'down' team. Remember, when the Hornets came to OKC, they were one of the worst teams in the league. In the first year, if you don't count the poorly-attended NO games, we were 9th in the NBA in attendance. That year, the team was sub .500. We had 18 sellouts or better. 2006 was comparable, but I wasn't able to find any exact numbers.

We put 85,000+ butts in seats for all of the Oklahoma U. football games, so I think we can support the team. We did well with the sub-.500 Hornets, but we'll see. I think we'll be able to support the team. If I'm wrong, I'm sure you'll quote this post in a few years and have a good laugh at my expense.

The Key Arena is essentially a new arena. Not on the outside, since it was the original Coliseum, but the inside was completely gutted in the 90s. Why would we want to pay another $250 MILLION to renovate it again just 10 or 15 years later? We renovated it the first time according to what the Sonics owners wanted, and the past several years they haven't even come close to selling it out. In the end many Seattlites just got tired of the constant whining from team owners, especially the owners from out of state that I think everyone knew would want to move the team - that was the first thing I thought of when I heard that some out-of-towner had bought the Sonics.

According to Stern, the arena didn't meet NBA criteria. I don't really have anything bad to say about the Key. I'm sure it's a fine facility. I don't have anything more to go on. OKC's Ford Center was built in '95 as an "NBA-ready" facility. It's getting $150 million worth of improvements to bring it up to par for the new team. Comparing two arenas, I'm sure, is apples to oranges.

I was struck by one of Bennett's comments last night at his press conference when he mentioned that the Ford Center was limited in that it doesn't have enough seats (19,675).

A new arena is probably in the works. OKC has had a series of public works programs geared at improving the city. Somoe of the tentative drawings I've seen on OKC's next big round of public works programs include a new, larger arena.

OKC has passed all of these public works programs by a very wide margin.

At least we got to keep the nickname, colors, etc. so that we can bring back the Sonics another time if we want to. I'd personally much rather have a NHL team.

It would have been odd to have the Oklahoma City Sonics. I think Bennett's decision to take the trophies/record/etc. was the wrong one. I think all of that ought to remain in Seattle.

NHL is good stuff. I think the Grizzlies may be heading your way soon enough.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Rudey

You are so ridiculous it's hilarious.

OKC is filled with a bunch of idiots if they think their tax dollars are well spent on this and you are amazing for thinking someone just LOVES losing money on a sports team. Heck if you love losing money so much why don't you offer to purchase some of the liabilities off Bennett...I'm sure since it's so unprofitable he'd gladly turn it over to you.

I don't think OKC was focused on making a profit here.

We all know it's probably going to hemorrhage money. To be honest, I think most folks here are fine with that.

[DeltAlum]

It has always seemed to me that the cities that people think of most often are the ones with professional sports franchises. They're on TV often, as well as in newspapers and on radio.

Personally, I get sick of owners demanding bigger arena/stadiums with more luxury boxes, etc. However, I suspect that the hidden return to a city like OKC may be more important than the actual profits (or lack thereof) brought in by a professional team.

My guess is that businesses may be more likely to embrace (and move to) a city with a team and that having one could be more of a draw for talented employees, etc.

Comparing the benefits for a city like Seattle, which has other professional sports, and OKC, which doesn't, may be the real apples and oranges piece of this equation.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by DeltAlum

It has always seemed to me that the cities that people think of most often are the ones with professional sports franchises. They're on TV often, as well as in newspapers and on radio.

Personally, I get sick of owners demanding bigger arena/stadiums with more luxury boxes, etc. However, I suspect that the hidden return to a city like OKC may be more important than the actual profits (or lack thereof) brought in by a professional team.

My guess is that businesses may be more likely to embrace (and move to) a city with a team and that having one could be more of a draw for talented employees, etc.

Comparing the benefits for a city like Seattle, which has other professional sports, and OKC, which doesn't, may be the real apples and oranges piece of this equation.

Agreed. The knock on OKC for a long time is that there wasn't much to do here. Our city's leadership recognized this in the 90's and decided it was a matter of public investment. We've pumped billions into our entertainment districts, schools, etc. We're now spending a good amount to pay for an NBA team.

Our Chamber of Commerce was very high on the NBA, regardless of the price, primarily due to the intangible things the NBA can bring to a marginal city like OKC.

[Kevin]

I heard a local news station report that we've already sold 11,000 season tickets just two days after the phone lines opened.

I guess we'll be able to support the team for at least one season.

[Rudey]

???? What are you talking about???

Originally Posted by DeltAlum

It has always seemed to me that the cities that people think of most often are the ones with professional sports franchises. They're on TV often, as well as in newspapers and on radio.

Personally, I get sick of owners demanding bigger arena/stadiums with more luxury boxes, etc. However, I suspect that the hidden return to a city like OKC may be more important than the actual profits (or lack thereof) brought in by a professional team.

My guess is that businesses may be more likely to embrace (and move to) a city with a team and that having one could be more of a draw for talented employees, etc.

Comparing the benefits for a city like Seattle, which has other professional sports, and OKC, which doesn't, may be the real apples and oranges piece of this equation.

[DeltAlum]

Originally Posted by Rudey

???? What are you talking about???

I think there are "transparent" benefits for the image of a city to have a professional sports franchise that go beyond the dollars and cents that can be directly attributed the gate, consessions, parking, luxury boxes, tourism, etc.

Among them is the name mention on national and local sports, news, etc.

It's the proverbial publicity that money can't buy.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by DeltAlum

I think there are "transparent" benefits for the image of a city to have a professional sports franchise that go beyond the dollars and cents that can be directly attributed the gate, consessions, parking, luxury boxes, tourism, etc.

Among them is the name mention on national and local sports, news, etc.

It's the proverbial publicity that money can't buy.

These things all have a literal dollar value that can be calculated by economists - it's actually a straight-forward process (and, as an aside, if you can't put a dollar value on it then it doesn't matter as far as the bond issues go).

Even accounting for these extra benefits, publicly-funded stadiums are generally a financial disaster for the city, and essentially account for every citizen paying for an incredibly rich ownership group to get richer.

You might want to check out some of the sports business resources out there - Maury Brown, for instance, does a great job at his site.