Kappa Beta Gamma/Kappa Delta

[Just interested]

ta kala, how many ladies were initiated? Was it just the members of KBG or were others as well? I understand Ripon is next weekend.

[AlwaysSAI]

I'm sure I'll get flamed for saying this...

But, does anyone else see a problem with this? The Franklin & Marshall chapter of KBG is only a few years old-excuse me, was only a few years old. And, they disaffiliated from the their national, which, I mean, is a small sorority, but still--only to affiliate with Kappa Delta.

And, this is the second chapter to do so--the first affiliated with KKG.

I just find it disrespect of the founders, rituals, vows....everything for KBG. What kind of loyalty does that breed for those newest members of Kappa Delta? And, what does that show for Kappa Delta?

It's been said on here before, by 33girl and I'll say it again. Just because your vows aren't to an NPC sorority doesn't make them disposable.

[chitownxo]

Yeah, I see a problem with this...but then again, my mom's a KBG alum from the LUC Chapter which affilated with KKG last year. To me if you pledge your loyalty to a sisterhood then drop it to join a bigger one....well, how loyal are you, really?

FWIW, I will say I believe the ladies at F&M were more honest about looking to join an NPC chapter than their former LUC sisters. From what I've heard, the F&M KBG sisters told their nationals they were looking to affilate elsewhere before it happened. They kept everything above-board and honorable, and I'm sure they'll be a fantastic addition to the KD sisterhood. The LUC KBG chapter (which, by the way, was over 40 years old) didn't clue their National in to the fact that they were trying to leave until after the fact. That's not right.

If BootyKBG is still around, I'm sure she'll have a lot more first-hand info about this, and I, for one, would be interested in her thoughts on this.

[KSUViolet06]

Let's remember that the F&M girls did ask permission from KBG to be released, as opposed to the LUC group. I doubt they would have wanted to go through with it if they hadn't gotten KBG's approval (considering the bit of a mess that was caused with the LUC chapter).

I also would be interested in any KBG's thoughts about this and how they as a national are handling this (like are they upset, etc). I also wonder if they are looking at this and wondering why it is that their chapters are becoming interested in other orgs (and maybe looking into it).

[AlwaysSAI]

Originally Posted by chitownxo

FWIW, I will say I believe the ladies at F&M were more honest about looking to join an NPC chapter than their former LUC sisters. From what I've heard, the F&M KBG sisters told their nationals they were looking to affilate elsewhere before it happened. They kept everything above-board and honorable, and I'm sure they'll be a fantastic addition to the KD sisterhood. The LUC KBG chapter (which, by the way, was over 40 years old) didn't clue their National in to the fact that they were trying to leave until after the fact. That's not right.

Yes, I do agree and am glad that at least they had enough dignity to admit that they were seeking NPC affiliation.

The bigger issue I see with it is the loyalty of those sisters that were just initiated. They have not proven any sort of loyalty to KBG by doing what they did. If being apart of a large, well established NPC chapter was important to you, why didn't you join an NPC in the first place? What kind of loyalty will they have to KD? I hate when women join chapters just to disaffiliate later and I guess the bigger issue I see is KD assisting the chapter in their endeavors.

Initiation is initiation no matter if it's NPC and I'll always have respect for that.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by AlwaysSAI

I hate when women join chapters just to disaffiliate later and I guess the bigger issue I see is KD assisting the chapter in their endeavors.

I'm fairly sure that KD made sure that they had been released by KBG before they moved forward with the process. I doubt they would've without it. I don't believe there was any wrongdoing on KD's part.

[AlwaysSAI]

Oh, no, KSU, I wasn't saying KD had done anything wrong at all.

What I'm trying to say is--essentially, these women joined KBG and turned in their badges (when they asked to be released) only to re-affiliate with Kappa Delta. And, I when I said that Kappa Delta was assisting them, I meant that by going on with the colonization, Kappa Delta was assisting the women in turning away from KBG. Make sense?

I just hate it when women affiliate and then turn in their badges, is all.

[BootyKBG]

Ok, I would have posted sooner but was not aware of this discussion until extremely recently. Here is what happened.

The Nu chapter of KBG at Franklin and Marshall decided as active members that they wanted to affiliate with a panhellenic sorority. They had been in discussion about this with nationals on and off for maybe a year before they formally requested disaffiliation. Several years back our nationals was weak and supported by ONE active alumna who didn't ask for help until other former executive members stepped in. Since then we have continued to grow and strengthen as a national organization.

Because of this weak time period, said national alumna who was serving as sole board member with poor judgement suggested the possibility of a merger to the chapters during the annual convention. Our strongest chapters at that time took this back with them, dispite the fact that during that same convention an entirely new national board came on and began the revising process.

Nu initially began asking for items that we simply couldn't or wouldn't supply, such as buying them a house. We had 5 chapters with extremely low dues compared to many NPC sororities, and because of this that is something that constitutionally we just don't provide. After much discussion the chapter decided that buying "stuff they could find their letters on" was more important that honoring their history and the support that KBG had provided up til that time, including the efforts of re-recognition by campus.

The chapter initially began the disaffiliation process as defined by the national bylaws and was open about the situation, compared to the chapter at Loyola who approached NPC without any discussion with nationals. Unfortunately, the affiliation with an NPC on both account began while the chapter was still under KBG. To this point, neither chapter completely disaffiliated as required, and NPC allowed their organizations to move in on the chapter with little to no formal contact with KBG Nationals.

NPC has in neither case given KBG the respect it gives its own sorority members in disaffiliation and affiliation with another organization.

[texas*princess]

Originally Posted by ta kala

Ok, I am very invested in the women of Kappa Delta at Franklin & Marshall. Without going into too much detail (out of respect to those involved), I will say that these women are incredibly dedicated to Kappa Delta. If you knew how much time and effort they have put in to this endeavor (not just in the past month), you would see that.

Also, the founders of the local that preceded KBG originally wanted to be a NPC, but due to campus conditions, were unable to do so.

With that being said, the reason many of these women did not "join an NPC in the first place" is because they liked the women of KBG. Tri Sigma left in 2004, leaving just Chi Omega and KBG, until this past fall. So the majority of KD's members had a choice between ChiO and KBG and felt a closer connection to the KBG women.

I am not trying to put down KBG, but the women saw how ChiO operated and especially after APhi joined, they yearned for an organization that could provide them with the same resources that their Panhellenic sisters were receiving.


And they never "turned their badges in" because they never received them (at least none of the current collegiate members did).

Regardless of whether or not they have received their badges, I would venture to guess they took some kind of oath of loyalty to KBG.

If they felt a closer connection to the girls of KBG, why abandon that and make it into something it wasn't just because they wanted an org with more resources like the other sororities on campus? Or why join KBG in the first place if they "yearned" to be part of a group with better resources?

Or they could have waited it out, formed an interest group and get organized. It is possible that down the road their interest group could be picked up by a NPC.

It just doesn't seem right to join an National org just to leave it to join a bigger one.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by AlwaysSAI;

If being a part of a large, well established NPC chapter was important to you, why didn't you join an NPC in the first place?

Because at F & M, at the time KBG was created, they only had 2 NPC sororities. One has closed since then so for the majority of KBG's existence, there were only 2 sororities to choose from - Chi Omega and KBG. The school didn't recognize Greeks for a long time and that contributed to a lot of NPCs not wanting to colonize at the school, even though it is full of great women. But now the Greeks ARE being re-recognized and NPC groups want to be part of it. It's a really odd situation and one that isn't likely to happen again any time soon.

This seems to have been conducted in a very straight up manner by all concerned - KBG national, KD national and the sisters at the F & M chapter. That LUC deal, though, really really not so much.

[PhiRhoSister]

I wrote this in another thread, but it is one thing to accept a local sorority or a group that had its roots with another national sorority. It is another to actually initiate a whole group of women who were once initiated in another "national sorority". National fraternities do this, but national sororities do not -- regardless if they are part of NPC, NPHC, etc. It just seems that any NPC sorority that does this is desperate for a chapter and loses a lot of respect from other national groups. How would an NPC sorority feel if this was done to them -- they would not like it at all.

The NPC sorority "should" have waited for the group to become a local sorority (after disafflilating from the national sorority) for at least 3-4 years until all those women graduated, before allowing the group to petition and accepted by an NPC sorority. But apparently, the NPC sorority was not willing to wait or to start from the ground up.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by PhiRhoSister

It just seems that any NPC sorority that does this is desperate for a chapter and loses a lot of respect from other national groups. How would an NPC sorority feel if this was done to them -- they would not like it at all.

Wow. KD has 130 chapters, plus 3 upcoming colonies (not including F&M). They are certainly not "desperate." KD didn't just swoop in and say "hey you guys should leave KBG and become KDs, we'll help!" They were contacted by the group.

[NutBrnHair]

Originally Posted by PhiRhoSister

National fraternities do this, but national sororities do not -- regardless if they are part of NPC, NPHC, etc. It just seems that any NPC sorority that does this is desperate for a chapter and loses a lot of respect from other national groups...

I think that's pretty harsh.

I think Kappa Delta is a welcome addition to F&M.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by PhiRhoSister

I wrote this in another thread, but it is one thing to accept a local sorority or a group that had its roots with another national sorority. It is another to actually initiate a whole group of women who were once initiated in another "national sorority". National fraternities do this, but national sororities do not -- regardless if they are part of NPC, NPHC, etc.

Why is it different? Do women of local sororities owe less allegiance to their chapters? Soronian is a local sorority with a longer history than the NPC. Would taking over Soronian be less objectionable to taking over a chapter of a national organization? The women of KBG at F&M made the decision to join KD...they can do that. Obviously they were not getting what they needed as a group from KBG nationals. I don't think you can accuse the NPC of stealing chapters from KBG. We all are at risk of losing chapters if we don't do everything necessary to provide the experience that the women of our chapters are seeking. I hope KBG's other chapters are happy, and that they are able to expand as they wish. Chapters of local sororities and national sororities have been incorporated many, many times into NPC orgs. I don't think that the decision was ever made lightly on either side.

[lucgreek]

as a greek at luc not involved in the whole KBG/KKG switch, I can tell you what I've heard:

luc KBG girls were very dissatisified with nationals and had expressed that to them. nationals really didn't act on it or take them seriously so the girls felt left out and wanted to be part of a group that would pay attention to them.

the girls went looking for a new association and i think around 8-9 sororities visited campus and met the girls and the girls ultimately decided to affiliate with KKG. luc greek life accepted this because nearly all of the girls voted to dissassociate themselves and all pledged to KKG. girls that did not want the switch simply did not join KKG and KBG was barred from recruiting new members by luc greek life.

sororities at luc are all huge (i think all are at least 60+ members each), so this is a place where you want to make sure your chapter has good relations with nationals.