Sean Bell's Killers (NYC Cops) Walk

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Well, and I'm sure a lot of it has to do with my assumption (and other people may do this too) that any police brutality case which receives significant attention probably has a racial element. I'm sure that isn't entirely accurate, but those stories seem more likely to be well-publicized.

But yes, I think police brutality and racial profiling often run up against each other. Also, police brutality arguably disproportionately impacts the inner-city poor, which often brings in an element of racial divide.

OK...The cops

2 Black
1 Hispanic
2 White

Ofc Michael Oliver, the white cop, shot 31 times, the most of all the shooters, also was the one who reloaded....

Let's just get that out in the open.

But again, race really doesn't have a play here over police procedure, which it was discussed, was improperly followed.

However, I have to say this though....at 4am in a questionable part of town...if 4 or 5 guys roll up on me and my boys that I don't know...it's fight or flight, I don't care what color you are.

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

OK...The cops

2 Black
1 Hispanic
2 White

Ofc Michael Oliver, the white cop, shot 31 times, the most of all the shooters, also was the one who reloaded....

Let's just get that out in the open.

But again, race really doesn't have a play here over police procedure, which it was discussed, was improperly followed.

However, I have to say this though....at 4am in a questionable part of town...if 4 or 5 guys roll up on me and my boys that I don't know...it's fight or flight, I don't care what color you are.

Yeah I reread the article, I'm not sure what point you're really arguing. I'm not claiming this is a racial incident, I was just responding to DST's post about how racial undertones are sometimes sensed in police brutality situations.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Yeah I reread the article, I'm not sure what point you're really arguing. I'm not claiming this is a racial incident, I was just responding to DST's post about how racial undertones are sometimes sensed in police brutality situations.

Not arguing anything...stop assuming that I am.

Just making it clear for you.

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Not arguing anything...stop assuming that I am.

Just making it clear for you.

Thanks, though after your initial correction I was able to clarify the situation for myself.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

But again, race really doesn't have a play here over police procedure, which it was discussed, was improperly followed.

Race actually does have a play here but not in the way that Americans are used to dealing with race.

Americans are used to dealing with race in terms of a racially prejudiced cop (usually white) targeting racial and ethnic minorities (usually males) because they dislike minorities and want to justify targeting them.

However, what has been found regarding race and law enforcement is that racial and ethnic minority officers are often the ones using force on racial and ethnic minority suspects--for various reasons including alleged suspect demeanor and even the perceived need to prove themselves to fellow officers. White officers who do or do not feel a particular way about black males, for instance, do not necessarily translate this feeling into behavior (police brutality, shooting suspects, harassing blacks) to the extent that people think they do.

So when we talk about police brutality and profiling, in terms of police procedures, we do have to acknowledge that black males are most often the victims of this and there is a huge cover-up going on that allows cops to be acquitted most of the time. This is about a structural issue regarding race in police procedures and not the individual level issue of racial prejudice that Americans are used to focusing on. That's why the race of the officers (and even the existence or nonexistence of prejudices) is not key. Black and Hispanic officers are just as susceptible to perpetuating this structural inequality in many contexts.

[1908Revelations]

This is total BULL! I am sooo pissed. I hope that justice gets served one way or another. I hope the fry soemwhere here in chair or in hell. I'm sorry, but this is total crap!!

[DaemonSeid]

I had a situation in Oct 1995 (unbelieveably, the same day the OJ verdict came out) where cops who presumed that I and one of my brothers, killed his baby (they thought that we dumped the body in some woods....LOONNG STUPID STORY.) drove up behind us in an unmarked car and plainclothes (come to find out later, they were on thier way to work), one got out with gun already drawn, my brother frantically drove away as the driver of the car gave chase, and never IDed himself as a cop.

I was never so scared in all my life, and yeah, I thought I was being robbed, in broad daylight mind you.


Short version was, I was walking home, my brother was driving past and said he would take me home, I opened the car door and put my nephew's babyseat in the back and got in the car.

The officer later said he thought we had dumped the baby and was driving off!

[nittanyalum]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

I had a situation in Oct 1995 (unbelieveably, the same day the OJ verdict came out) where cops who presumed that I and one of my brothers, killed his baby (they thought that we dumped the body in some woods....LOONNG STUPID STORY.) drove up behind us in an unmarked car and plainclothes (come to find out later, they were on thier way to work), one got out with gun already drawn, my brother frantically drove away as the driver of the car gave chase, and never IDed himself as a cop.

I was never so scared in all my life, and yeah, I thought I was being robbed, in broad daylight mind you.


Short version was, I was walking home, my brother was driving past and said he would take me home, I opened the car door and put my nephew's babyseat in the back and got in the car.

The officer later said he thought we had dumped the baby and was driving off!

Well, Seid, sure, what other logical conclusion could he have come to? Couple young black dudes (one with DREADS, no less), put an empty baby seat in a car -- clearly they must have dumped a little body somewhere. What else would they be doing with it?

*hoping dripping sarcasm I hear in my head is translating through the screen*

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by nittanyalum

Well, Seid, sure, what other logical conclusion could he have come to? Couple young black dudes (one with DREADS, no less), put an empty baby seat in a car -- clearly they must have dumped a little body somewhere. What else would they be doing with it?

*hoping dripping sarcasm I hear in my head is translating through the screen*

heheheh....riiiight?????

got 2 items for you nitt....LOL

1. in 1995 I was bald...HA! (I need to see if I can still find pics....)

2. The cops too, were black...which when CHAOS explained the profiling situation put a whole lotta stuff in perspective...

[jon1856]

Before I even post I will state that ANYTHING that Rev Al gets involved with will ALWAYS be turned into a matter of RACE. Just MVHO. Based on his MO of many years.

And since I have yet any postings from today with what happened; please read some of them. As well as links off of them:
From the NY local papers:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/26/ny...26BELL.html?hp
http://breakingnews.nypost.com/dynam...P&SECTION=HOME
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_c...itted_of_.html
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/ne...,3279195.story
http://www.amny.com/news/ny-nycops0426,0,4250.story

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24305660/
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/25/...ial/index.html
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,352566,00.html
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNe...edName=topNews


From the radio feeds I heard, many of the local crime beat reporters said that the "unreliable testimony of Bell's friends" (I am using a kind phase) hurt the case.
"Justice Arthur J. Cooperman, who delivered the verdict in State Supreme Court, said many of the prosecution’s witnesses, including Mr. Bell’s friends and the two wounded victims, were simply not believable. “At times, the testimony of those witnesses just didn’t make sense,” he said."

BTB, Rev Al is involved in another police shooting case in NY metro area.
An off duty local officer was shot and killed by four County Officers.
Rev Al got involved even before it was publicly announced that the victim was black. The four County Officers are mixed group.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by jon1856

Before I even post I will state that ANYTHING that Rev Al gets involved with will ALWAYS be turned into a matter of RACE. Just MVHO. Based on his MO of many years.

And since I have yet any postings from today with what happened; please read some of them. As well as links off of them:
From the NY local papers:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/26/ny...26BELL.html?hp
http://breakingnews.nypost.com/dynam...P&SECTION=HOME
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_c...itted_of_.html
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/ne...,3279195.story
http://www.amny.com/news/ny-nycops0426,0,4250.story

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24305660/
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/25/...ial/index.html
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,352566,00.html
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNe...edName=topNews


From the radio feeds I heard, many of the local crime beat reporters said that the "unreliable testimony of Bell's friends" (I am using a kind phase) hurt the case.

BTB, Rev Al is involved in another police shooting case in NY metro area.
An off duty local officer was shot and killed by four County Officers.
Rev Al got involved even before it was publicly announced that the victim was black. The four County Officers are mixed group.

I knew that someone on the A train was bound to pull in soon...and right on time.

Jon...go back and read some of the posts here too...

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

I knew that someone on the A train was bound to pull in soon...and right on time.

Jon...go back and read some of the posts here too...

I have, I will. You should as well
IMVHO, too many people are confusing emotional issues (which can in some ways be justified) with legal matters and issues.
A train????

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by jon1856

Before I even post I will state that ANYTHING that Rev Al gets involved with will ALWAYS be turned into a matter of RACE. Just MVHO. Based on his MO of many years.

Based on HIS MO or based on a perceived need? I'm really humored at this line of discussion.

Whether or not people like Al Sharpton doesn't change that there is a need for voices to be heard and he's one way that voices have been heard for years. Al Sharpton champions the civil rights of some underrepresented groups, PERIOD.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Based on HIS MO or based on a perceived need? I'm really humored at this line of discussion.

Whether or not people like Al Sharpton doesn't change that there is a need for voices to be heard and he's one way that voices have been heard for years. Al Sharpton champions the civil rights of some underrepresented groups, PERIOD.

Two words: Tawana Brawley.