DARK/LIGHT...SKIN COLOR.........Is this still an issue? Let's be honest Sorors & SF'

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

How is it a separate topic, genetically? I really do not understand how it could be? What would be the genetic purpose of a lighter skin tone if not for mutation, which is a part of evolution?

So without genetic mutations, all humans would be (insert complexion)? Eh....genetic mutation/evolution explanations have not been accepted across the board so you can debate that with yourself.

More importantly, this thread is about intragroup prejudice, regardless of the different theories behind where light/dark genetically came from. Albinism is an extreme and relatively rare condition that isn't about being "lightskinned." So to attempt to discuss albinos in a light/dark discussion is like discussing vitiligo or burn victims whose skin have been darkened. It is difficult to know whether these people will have certain advantages of disadvantages based on "colorism" versus being treated a certain way because they have a CONDITION. Conditions can generate intrigue and celebration or they can generate fear and disgust.

My stomach turned when I saw those albino photos but my stomach doesn't turn when I see photos of lightskinned or pale skinned blacks--unless the person is UGLY. While a lot of people are quick to call lighter blacks "pretty" just because they exist--I have never seen an albino black person even called "attractive."

[NappyBison]

http://www.africancrisis.co.za/Article.php?ID=22529&

Interesting article on a South African albino girl who has been shunned from school.

Question: I've got a multiracial friend (black and white) who is pretty in my opinion but she is extremely light in complexion. She faithfully goes tanning 2-3 times per week in order to achieve a darker skin complexion. My question, have multiracial children been conditioned to believe they aren't "black enough" and thus they feel the need to prove their "blackness"? This subject was hinted at in my original post with the youtube link below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0BxF...eature=related

[rhoyaltempest]

I have studied genetic mutation and DNA as well but I still say that Albinism is a separate topic since it is a rare condition like DSTCHAOS said.

Now I'm not saying that Albinism isn't caused by a genetic mutation, all rare conditions and birth defects are, but Albinism is still a different topic from the one that we are discussing here. Albinism while it's about the skin, is seen as a handicap or defect.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

I have studied genetic mutation and DNA as well but I still say that Albinism is a separate topic since it is a rare condition like DSTCHAOS said.

Now I'm not saying that Albinism isn't caused by a genetic mutation, all rare conditions and birth defects are, but Albinism is still a different topic from the one that we are discussing here. Albinism while it's about the skin, is seen as a handicap or defect.

Yeah albinism is a genetic mutation but isn't Monet also trying to say that lighter skin, in general, is caused by a genetic mutation?

[IOTA-4A'88F]

OK, I had alil' bit of time to read some of the comments, I can come at this from different angles...
1. Dealing with Albinism, yes, it can be a different topic, but it also can be the same topic. Not all have total lost of pigment, so their skin can mimic that of a White person or one of fairly complected. They not only deal with the stigma of being 'different' but also, for people of color, from their own race. "Oh you think you are better because your skin is "light bright and pretty much white." I can't count how many fights I had because of my mother's skin tone and the thoughts of; for lack of a better word.... IGNANT folk. I also was thought to be adopted, "oh that is nice of you to adopt that lil' black inner city boy" WTF. I am not gonna even go into how many "PRIVILEGED" conversations my mother had with White folks talking about Black people thinking she was White. I think that can classify as judging someone strictly on their skin tone.

**(SEPARATE THOUGHT) Yes, it was said before, red eyes in human albinos are rare, but not non-existing. My mother receives a bi-monthly Albino publication that had photos of red (and even purple) eyed human albinos. Red eyes are the cause of the underlying retinal blood vessels showing through where there is not enough pigment to cover them. Human eyes are larger (than animals) and can produce enough pigment for the eye to be opaque. **

My mother is #2 of four siblings. Two were albino. My sister and I are not, but I believe my children (whenever I have some) will be. My sister's kids showed traits of albinism.

2. One of the reasons, I think (and probably has been said) is the fact that, society plays so much of an emphasis on skin tone and color (not meaning race) in general. If it is an darker hue, it is denoted as a bad feeling, "It's pitch black outside", "I am feeling blue", "mellow yellow", "I am red hot", "Green with eny." It's only natural that we as a society bring that mentality into play. And it don't stay within the Black race. Hispanics, Asians, Indians, Jewish people have the same hangups about skin tone... some more than us. Including White people, they discriminate on skin tone (at times) worse than we do (IMHO-one of the reasons why they want a tan so bad- it denotes from a White person, a class of luxury and leisure).

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by IOTA-4A'88F

OK, I had alil' bit of time to read some of the comments, I can come at this from different angles...
1. Dealing with Albinism, yes, it can be a different topic, but it also can be the same topic. Not all have total lost of pigment, so their skin can mimic that of a White person or one of fairly complected. They not only deal with the stigma of being 'different' but also, for people of color, from their own race. "Oh you think you are better because your skin is "light bright and pretty much white." I can't count how many fights I had because of my mother's skin tone and the thoughts of; for lack of a better word.... IGNANT folk. I also was thought to be adopted, "oh that is nice of you to adopt that lil' black inner city boy" WTF. I am not gonna even go into how many "PRIVILEGED" conversations my mother had with White folks talking about Black people thinking she was White. I think that can classify as judging someone strictly on their skin tone.

**(SEPARATE THOUGHT) Yes, it was said before, red eyes in human albinos are rare, but not non-existing. My mother receives a bi-monthly Albino publication that had photos of red (and even purple) eyed human albinos. Red eyes are the cause of the underlying retinal blood vessels showing through where there is not enough pigment to cover them. Human eyes are larger (than animals) and can produce enough pigment for the eye to be opaque. **

My mother is #2 of four siblings. Two were albino. My sister and I are not, but I believe my children (whenever I have some) will be. My sister's kids showed traits of albinism.

2. One of the reasons, I think (and probably has been said) is the fact that, society plays so much of an emphasis on skin tone and color (not meaning race) in general. If it is an darker hue, it is denoted as a bad feeling, "It's pitch black outside", "I am feeling blue", "mellow yellow", "I am red hot", "Green with eny." It's only natural that we as a society bring that mentality into play. And it don't stay within the Black race. Hispanics, Asians, Indians, Jewish people have the same hangups about skin tone... some more than us. Including White people, they discriminate on skin tone (at times) worse than we do (IMHO-one of the reasons why they want a tan so bad- it denotes from a White person, a class of luxury and leisure).

Actually linking what's bad and good to colors and skin tones is only natural for some because society created such a consciousness as a result of prejudice based on a fear of those (Black/African) who looked different from Europeans.

Take children for example, when they are very young, they will play with anyone, no matter what color they are. It's only when they start to pick up the attitudes and feelings of those around them and the greater society, that they start to associate colors/skin tones and other physical characteristics of people as good or bad. This is not an innate thing, this is a learned thing. As for the dark vs. light, bad vs. good, that exists among other ethnicities like Latinos and Asians, they have also been impacted greatly by this societal consciousness, which has become a world consciousness. This is the same consciousness "color consciousness" that has put European ideals of beauty on a pedestal for all other races to admire and compare themselves to. This is the tragedy.

[IOTA-4A'88F]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

Actually linking what's bad and good to colors and skin tones is only natural for some because society created such a consciousness as a result of prejudice based on a fear of those (Black/African) who looked different from Europeans.

Take children for example, when they are very young, they will play with anyone, no matter what color they are. It's only when they start to pick up the attitudes and feelings of those around them and the greater society, that they start to associate colors/skin tones and other physical characteristics of people as good or bad. This is not an innate thing, this is a learned thing. As for the dark vs. light, bad vs. good, that exists among other ethnicities like Latinos and Asians, they have also been impacted greatly by this societal consciousness, which has become a world consciousness. This is the same consciousness "color consciousness" that has put European ideals of beauty on a pedestal for all other races to admire and compare themselves to. This is the tragedy.

The bold quote is understood, but I would have to differ on the "for some," respectfully, all ethnicities do this. The skin separation is only the skimmed surface, we as human race have always separated ourselves from those who are not (deemed) like-minded. Not to say, the separation was a negative or positive one, but one that we have in us. Even within the "like-minded" community, they (we, us, them) further separate. Take our orgs... we separate ourselves simply by the organization and within that particular org, we further separate by neophyte as opposed to prophyte, line brother/sister as oppose to other brothers/sisters and even who pledged and who didn't pledge. It's in us all (for some instances, unfortunately).

As far as the children... so on point, they are born without prejudice and a sense of wanting to separate... or are they... I know I kept my Legos separated from my Play-Doh.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by IOTA-4A'88F

1. Dealing with Albinism, yes, it can be a different topic, but it also can be the same topic. Not all have total lost of pigment, so their skin can mimic that of a White person or one of fairly complected. They not only deal with the stigma of being 'different' but also, for people of color, from their own race. "Oh you think you are better because your skin is "light bright and pretty much white." I can't count how many fights I had because of my mother's skin tone and the thoughts of; for lack of a better word.... IGNANT folk. I also was thought to be adopted, "oh that is nice of you to adopt that lil' black inner city boy" WTF. I am not gonna even go into how many "PRIVILEGED" conversations my mother had with White folks talking about Black people thinking she was White. I think that can classify as judging someone strictly on their skin tone.

Well, in that case, there are plenty of extreeeeeeeeemely light and light featured blacks who aren't albino. Moreover, many of these people also have fine features (which albinos don't automatically have nor do extreeeemely light blacks, of course) so they could pass for white. So the same theory of "light bright damn near white" applies without an extensive analysis of albinism.

Oh and I was interested by the photos on this website that I'm sure you're already familiar with: http://www.albinism.org/

[IOTA-4A'88F]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Well, in that case, there are plenty of extreeeeeeeeemely light and light featured blacks who aren't albino. Moreover, many of these people also have fine features (which albinos don't automatically have nor do extreeeemely light blacks, of course) so they could pass for white. So the same theory of "light bright damn near white" applies without an extensive analysis of albinism.

Oh and I was interested by the photos on this website that I'm sure you're already familiar with: http://www.albinism.org/

So true... and the link is actually the org that my mother receives publications from.

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

I have studied genetic mutation and DNA as well but I still say that Albinism is a separate topic since it is a rare condition like DSTCHAOS said.

Now I'm not saying that Albinism isn't caused by a genetic mutation, all rare conditions and birth defects are, but Albinism is still a different topic from the one that we are discussing here. Albinism while it's about the skin, is seen as a handicap or defect.

Light skin vs. Dark skin among Blacks (not including those who have Albinism)

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

Light skin vs. Dark skin among Blacks (not including those who have Albinism)

Right but isn't AKAMonet also trying to say that lighter skin comes from a genetic mutation? Her point is misplaced but I thought that was also her point.

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Right but isn't AKAMonet also trying to say that lighter skin comes from a genetic mutation? Her point is misplaced but I thought that was also her point.

That may be her point (I'm not sure what her point is) but my research hasn't led me to believe that light skinned Blacks are the result of genetic mutation in the same way that genetic mutation is responsible for the evolution of one race/color from another. In the case of African Americans, we have light skinned Blacks because of European, Native American, etc. ancestry (and this doesn't mean that dark skinned Blacks don't have such ancestry because many do, including myself).

My interpretation of genetic mutation (in this way) doesn't begat light skinned Blacks.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

That may be her point (I'm not sure what her point is) but my research hasn't led me to believe that light skinned Blacks are the result of genetic mutation in the same way that genetic mutation is responsible for the evolution of one race/color from another. In the case of African Americans, we have light skinned Blacks because of European, Native American, etc. ancestry (and this doesn't mean that dark skinned Blacks don't have such ancestry because many do, including myself).

My interpretation of genetic mutation (in this way) doesn't begat light skinned Blacks.

Wait... If you do a sequence search from one population vs. another--say Nordic featured Caucasians and Africans from Sub-Sahara, you will find that the African genes are diverse in sequence from Nordic featured Caucasians... And when you compare the African albinos to Nordic featured Caucasians to the main allele, you do find similarities in the actual code...

These are not the same things that make an "African featured" dark-skinned or Asian dark-skinned person... What THE only change is the mutations seen in the albinos are JUST the same or similar as the sequence in Caucasians--NOT ALL--but quite a few populations.

There may be polymorphic markers that different or single nucleotide polymorphisms or translation state arrayed microRNAs--however, the TYR gene spelling is remarkably similar to African type Albinos... Specifically in West African in descent--from Nigeria across to Tanzania give or take a few countries.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

I have studied genetic mutation and DNA as well but I still say that Albinism is a separate topic since it is a rare condition like DSTCHAOS said.

Now I'm not saying that Albinism isn't caused by a genetic mutation, all rare conditions and birth defects are, but Albinism is still a different topic from the one that we are discussing here. Albinism while it's about the skin, is seen as a handicap or defect.

Interesting you say that... I just see it as a the genetic response to a harsh environmental condition... All albinos do not pass on their trait to their children unless it is homozygous recessive--co-dominant... Many albinos are NOT that--most are compound heterozygotes. Only mice, rats, flies can be MADE to be full homozygous recessive--co-dominant true albinos at this time. It is RARE to find a human being like that, and then you have to wonder about inbreeding. There is only ONE I have seen with red-eyes...

Rarity of the condition does not mean it does not exist.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

Rarity of the condition does not mean it does not exist.

That's true. I don't know if I've ever seen a red eyed albino.