DARK/LIGHT...SKIN COLOR.........Is this still an issue? Let's be honest Sorors & SF'

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

I do not see it a separate topic....

It is, though.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

It is, though.

How is it a separate topic, genetically? I really do not understand how it could be? What would be the genetic purpose of a lighter skin tone if not for mutation, which is a part of evolution?

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

How is it a separate topic, genetically? I really do not understand how it could be? What would be the genetic purpose of a lighter skin tone if not for mutation, which is a part of evolution?

So without genetic mutations, all humans would be (insert complexion)? Eh....genetic mutation/evolution explanations have not been accepted across the board so you can debate that with yourself.

More importantly, this thread is about intragroup prejudice, regardless of the different theories behind where light/dark genetically came from. Albinism is an extreme and relatively rare condition that isn't about being "lightskinned." So to attempt to discuss albinos in a light/dark discussion is like discussing vitiligo or burn victims whose skin have been darkened. It is difficult to know whether these people will have certain advantages of disadvantages based on "colorism" versus being treated a certain way because they have a CONDITION. Conditions can generate intrigue and celebration or they can generate fear and disgust.

My stomach turned when I saw those albino photos but my stomach doesn't turn when I see photos of lightskinned or pale skinned blacks--unless the person is UGLY. While a lot of people are quick to call lighter blacks "pretty" just because they exist--I have never seen an albino black person even called "attractive."

[NappyBison]

http://www.africancrisis.co.za/Article.php?ID=22529&

Interesting article on a South African albino girl who has been shunned from school.

Question: I've got a multiracial friend (black and white) who is pretty in my opinion but she is extremely light in complexion. She faithfully goes tanning 2-3 times per week in order to achieve a darker skin complexion. My question, have multiracial children been conditioned to believe they aren't "black enough" and thus they feel the need to prove their "blackness"? This subject was hinted at in my original post with the youtube link below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0BxF...eature=related

[rhoyaltempest]

I have studied genetic mutation and DNA as well but I still say that Albinism is a separate topic since it is a rare condition like DSTCHAOS said.

Now I'm not saying that Albinism isn't caused by a genetic mutation, all rare conditions and birth defects are, but Albinism is still a different topic from the one that we are discussing here. Albinism while it's about the skin, is seen as a handicap or defect.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

I have studied genetic mutation and DNA as well but I still say that Albinism is a separate topic since it is a rare condition like DSTCHAOS said.

Now I'm not saying that Albinism isn't caused by a genetic mutation, all rare conditions and birth defects are, but Albinism is still a different topic from the one that we are discussing here. Albinism while it's about the skin, is seen as a handicap or defect.

Yeah albinism is a genetic mutation but isn't Monet also trying to say that lighter skin, in general, is caused by a genetic mutation?

[IOTA-4A'88F]

OK, I had alil' bit of time to read some of the comments, I can come at this from different angles...
1. Dealing with Albinism, yes, it can be a different topic, but it also can be the same topic. Not all have total lost of pigment, so their skin can mimic that of a White person or one of fairly complected. They not only deal with the stigma of being 'different' but also, for people of color, from their own race. "Oh you think you are better because your skin is "light bright and pretty much white." I can't count how many fights I had because of my mother's skin tone and the thoughts of; for lack of a better word.... IGNANT folk. I also was thought to be adopted, "oh that is nice of you to adopt that lil' black inner city boy" WTF. I am not gonna even go into how many "PRIVILEGED" conversations my mother had with White folks talking about Black people thinking she was White. I think that can classify as judging someone strictly on their skin tone.

**(SEPARATE THOUGHT) Yes, it was said before, red eyes in human albinos are rare, but not non-existing. My mother receives a bi-monthly Albino publication that had photos of red (and even purple) eyed human albinos. Red eyes are the cause of the underlying retinal blood vessels showing through where there is not enough pigment to cover them. Human eyes are larger (than animals) and can produce enough pigment for the eye to be opaque. **

My mother is #2 of four siblings. Two were albino. My sister and I are not, but I believe my children (whenever I have some) will be. My sister's kids showed traits of albinism.

2. One of the reasons, I think (and probably has been said) is the fact that, society plays so much of an emphasis on skin tone and color (not meaning race) in general. If it is an darker hue, it is denoted as a bad feeling, "It's pitch black outside", "I am feeling blue", "mellow yellow", "I am red hot", "Green with eny." It's only natural that we as a society bring that mentality into play. And it don't stay within the Black race. Hispanics, Asians, Indians, Jewish people have the same hangups about skin tone... some more than us. Including White people, they discriminate on skin tone (at times) worse than we do (IMHO-one of the reasons why they want a tan so bad- it denotes from a White person, a class of luxury and leisure).

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

I have studied genetic mutation and DNA as well but I still say that Albinism is a separate topic since it is a rare condition like DSTCHAOS said.

Now I'm not saying that Albinism isn't caused by a genetic mutation, all rare conditions and birth defects are, but Albinism is still a different topic from the one that we are discussing here. Albinism while it's about the skin, is seen as a handicap or defect.

Light skin vs. Dark skin among Blacks (not including those who have Albinism)

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

Light skin vs. Dark skin among Blacks (not including those who have Albinism)

Right but isn't AKAMonet also trying to say that lighter skin comes from a genetic mutation? Her point is misplaced but I thought that was also her point.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

I have studied genetic mutation and DNA as well but I still say that Albinism is a separate topic since it is a rare condition like DSTCHAOS said.

Now I'm not saying that Albinism isn't caused by a genetic mutation, all rare conditions and birth defects are, but Albinism is still a different topic from the one that we are discussing here. Albinism while it's about the skin, is seen as a handicap or defect.

Interesting you say that... I just see it as a the genetic response to a harsh environmental condition... All albinos do not pass on their trait to their children unless it is homozygous recessive--co-dominant... Many albinos are NOT that--most are compound heterozygotes. Only mice, rats, flies can be MADE to be full homozygous recessive--co-dominant true albinos at this time. It is RARE to find a human being like that, and then you have to wonder about inbreeding. There is only ONE I have seen with red-eyes...

Rarity of the condition does not mean it does not exist.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

Rarity of the condition does not mean it does not exist.

That's true. I don't know if I've ever seen a red eyed albino.

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by NappyBison

http://www.africancrisis.co.za/Article.php?ID=22529&

Interesting article on a South African albino girl who has been shunned from school.

Question: I've got a multiracial friend (black and white) who is pretty in my opinion but she is extremely light in complexion. She faithfully goes tanning 2-3 times per week in order to achieve a darker skin complexion. My question, have multiracial children been conditioned to believe they aren't "black enough" and thus they feel the need to prove their "blackness"? This subject was hinted at in my original post with the youtube link below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0BxF...eature=related

I read the article and I really think it has more to do with her condition (Albinism), then racism (although it probably feels like racism to her and seems like it to others). I say this because in talking to my husband (who's from Ghana) and in getting to know his family and friends and in doing my own research, I've found that many Africans have a low tolerance for handicaps and rare conditions, especially when they are unattractive. It's really sad but in many poor villages, the handicap go uncared for if they don't have family. They are seen as burdens on society and people are mean and cruel to them. Also because many Africans are very superstitious (I think this is where African Americans got their superstitions from) and still go to village elders, herbalists, and voodoo practitioners (witch doctors) for healing, many of them are told that people with rare conditions they don't understand are cursed and that they should shun them and stay away from them or they will also be cursed. Even some of those who are educated find the superstitions hard to escape. My husband, who's educated and has lived in the U.S. for over 10 years has uttered not so nice things about people who are handicap or have rare conditions (and of course I correct him), so it's an ongoing problem there and I have read that rare conditions are less tolerated in other foreign countries as well.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

So without genetic mutations, all humans would be (insert complexion)? Eh....genetic mutation/evolution explanations have not been accepted across the board so you can debate that with yourself.

More importantly, this thread is about intragroup prejudice, regardless of the different theories behind where light/dark genetically came from. Albinism is an extreme and relatively rare condition that isn't about being "lightskinned." So to attempt to discuss albinos in a light/dark discussion is like discussing vitiligo or burn victims whose skin have been darkened. It is difficult to know whether these people will have certain advantages of disadvantages based on "colorism" versus being treated a certain way because they have a CONDITION. Conditions can generate intrigue and celebration or they can generate fear and disgust.

My stomach turned when I saw those albino photos but my stomach doesn't turn when I see photos of lightskinned or pale skinned blacks--unless the person is UGLY. While a lot of people are quick to call lighter blacks "pretty" just because they exist--I have never seen an albino black person even called "attractive."

Firstly, without genetics or epigenetics we cannot discuss ANYTHING about the human form...

Full Albinism are hotspot point mutations in the Tyrosinase gene for both alleles. There are also co-dominant effects, so that when one allele is normal for tyrosinase production toward melanin, the other mutant allele will "outrank" the absence of the allele.

The epigenetic effects of Albinism has not been extensive studied. But they exist. There are at least 3-4 forms of melanin along with the production from the TYR gene too. All varies with location, thought to be controlled by the epigenetic phenomena.

Just because there is an "absence" of melanin does not mean there is NO melanin production in ALL albinos. Melanin also aggregates in focal points in the skin. Especially in dark hued individuals and the high Sun exposure. In fact, there is thought that Sun exposure did not cause darker hues in humans. That humans were dark first, and then the color changes shifted to lighter complexions due to environmental exposures and changes. I.e. colder climates, lack of Vitamin D, Rickettsia and/or lack of sun exposure.

My references are from the discussions that took place after the Mitochondrial Eve and the Out of Africa hypotheses.

Virtiligo is a different set of genes altogether. And burn victims do not have darkened skin after the burn heals, they have a complete loss of their skin layer and zero organization of any epithelia cells altogether... So, that is outside this discussion.

Back in ancient days, people did not understand "CONDITIONS"... A culture, much like a leper colony was developed when these children were born... Think about how their minds developed, who they bred with, and how the "mutation" or "epigenes" were transmitted? So over time, it would be in the same league as how colorism could develop for various groups of people. These populations of people probably also had to migrate from the home clade because of the fear or disgust...

Over time, features changed--that which takes millenia. Many are unsure why. It is thought that it was due to a Supervolcano explosion ~100,000 years ago. Slowly eye structure, hair texture and nose shape, as well as other attributes, height, body structure changed. Probably because of food source changes--from sea to inland... More hunters than gatherers. Modern humans look like us, today. With an already mutagenized system and inbreeding, it is possible why we see this polymorphism in humanity.

Basically, we see similar activities in numerous other animals, how come we wouldn't expect to see it in humans?

Now, over time, we have diverse, random mating than we ever have seen before. Probably what we will see are taller or fatter humans and changes in ageing if we humans don't decide to change that directly.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

Firstly, without genetics or epigenetics we cannot discuss ANYTHING about the human form...

Now if you're talking about albinism in the way that Iota is talking about, that's a different story. But you aren't. There are a few ways to explain how humans evolved to the form that we are and how we began to categorize ourselves without discussing genetics. That's a big part of the study of racial and ethnic inequality, for instance. But beyond the foundation of how we got here, there's an analysis of how we perceive these differences and the categorizations and value-ridden rankings that were humanly derived from them. The resulting categories and ranks (i.e. prejudices) of good vs bad and lightskin vs darkskin is what this thread's about.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Sure we can and we WERE until you showed up. Those of us who are ignoring your tangents still ARE.

Now if you're talking about albinism in the way that Iota is talking about, that's a different story. But you aren't. There are a few ways to explain how humans evolved to the form that we are and how we began to categorize ourselves without discussing genetics. That's a big part of the study of racial and ethnic inequality, for instance. But beyond the foundation of how we got here, there's an analysis of how we perceive these differences and the categorizations and value-ridden rankings that were humanly derived from them. The resulting categories and ranks (i.e. prejudices) of good vs bad and lightskin vs darkskin is what this thread's about.

We cannot discuss the high-level politics or the ramifications of our history until we are clear of the biological players and how come we developed--from a ecological standpoint at jump...

There was a reason why Africans--dark skinned, Asians--both dark and light skinned, and Caucasians in Europe appear the way they appear in human biological evolution.

Why did humans migrate so far from their food to look so differently? Then develop a how inaccurate ideology based on colorisms? What would be the biological basis for that other than hatred or fear?

Since we are in the AKA Ave on this subject...