The first sorority to demand equal rights

[nittanyalum]

Originally Posted by breathesgelatin

Sorry to go on about this. I find the issue of names and the law very interesting. Especially the assumption that the "traditional" thing is for a woman to take her husband's name. That is actually a (relatively) recent innovation in Western culture, dating from the mid-to-late 18th c. (It began earlier in England than on the continent however.) Before that women always retained their maiden names. This is the case for the women I research in 17th-early 18th c. France.

And then there's the hispanic naming conventions where the children take both the father and the mother's surnames. Some women never drop those surnames as their "maiden name" and just add their husband's name with "de X" after their proper full surname.

[breathesgelatin]

Originally Posted by nittanyalum

And then there's the hispanic naming conventions where the children take both the father and the mother's surnames. Some women never drop those surnames as their "maiden name" and just add their husband's name with "de X" after their proper full surname.

Right. This is actually indicative of the traditional (pre-18th century) practice of name conventions, which in Spain and its colonies never fully switched over to what we might call the English model (as France & Germany & et al did) in which a woman completely drops her maiden name in general use (although may retain it as a unused middle name).

I should also mention that England's earlier adoption of this naming convention is related to its particularly restrictive coverture, which severely limited women's legal personhood to a degree unseen on the continent.

In European countries before the naming shift of the 18th century, elite women (eg titled aristocrats, maybe 5% or less of the population) would take the noble adjective of their husband as you mention. In France (and I guess Spain) this would be "de" and in Germany "von." Originally such prefixes indicated nobility and was indicative of a royal style. So for example one of the nobles I've studied quite a bit was Nikolaus Ludwig von Zinzendorf. In that case he had no "technical" last name (as indeed many European royality don't have last names to this day except for legal reasons) but the "von" indicated that he was "from" somewhere (his family's estate) and that he was a noble... Sort of like saying "duke of ......." would be today. Or you could think of George Gordon, who was Lord Byron. Byron wasn't his last name but rather the name of his house/title. A noble woman who married would consequently adopt her husband's royal name/style (eg Lady Byron). As time passed prefixes like "de" and "von" became less and less restricted to the nobility however.

Speaking of the Latin American model, I've seen a lot of professional women (mostly women in academia which is my field) who are now choosing to take their husband's name (as opposed to either keeping their name or hyphenating) but using their maiden name as a middle name for professional purposes. Using my earlier example this would be calling themselves "Jane Smith Doe" for all professional purposes but also having the flexibility outside of the professional world to be "Jane Doe". One of my friends has done this actually.

[SWTXBelle]

Actually, using your maiden name as a middle name has been a long-time southern convention. My name is Belle MaidenName MarriedName. Also, using family surnames for given names - my eldest son is named Jackson for my maternal grandmother's maiden name.

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Actually, using your maiden name as a middle name has been a long-time southern convention. My name is Belle MaidenName MarriedName. Also, using family surnames for given names - my eldest son is named Jackson for my maternal grandmother's maiden name.

I didn't know my mother had a middle name for the longest, because she used her maiden name as her middle name when ever she signed anything. LOL.

This practice seems to be making a resurgence, since I know many who have recently adopted it usually after the death of their father. And I don't mean hyphenated.

[ComradesTrue]

I "heart" this thread.

Thanks to everyone for contributing such interesting information.

[DSTRen13]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

I didn't know my mother had a middle name for the longest, because she used her maiden name as her middle name when ever she signed anything. LOL.

LOL - exactly! I think I was in middle school or something when I finally found out my mom's middle name (although I don't think it's still a legal part of her name) since she goes by FirstName MaidenName LastName. Most ladies around here do this, I think. (I'm just weird ... I'm FirstName MiddleName MyLastName-HisLastName, and so is he. )

[33girl]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

I didn't know my mother had a middle name for the longest, because she used her maiden name as her middle name when ever she signed anything. LOL.

This practice seems to be making a resurgence, since I know many who have recently adopted it usually after the death of their father. And I don't mean hyphenated.

My dad and his brother both married women with the same first name, and with middle names that started w/ the same initial. My mom used ZsaZsa MaidenName LastName, my aunt uses ZsaZsa MiddleName LastName. Even so, people still got it confused (mainly because my last name is unusual and people just assumed there couldn't be more than one person w/ that name).

[ForeverRoses]

Originally Posted by 33girl

My dad and his brother both married women with the same first name, and with middle names that started w/ the same initial. My mom used ZsaZsa MaidenName LastName, my aunt uses ZsaZsa MiddleName LastName. Even so, people still got it confused (mainly because my last name is unusual and people just assumed there couldn't be more than one person w/ that name).

And this is why I didn't change my name when I got married. I already had a middle name that I liked- it is my godmother's name. I wasn't comfortable just dropping it and using my last name as my middle name. I also really like my last name, and since my Dad is a geneologist I know the history behind it and am proud of that. And my name and my husband's name don't hyphenate well. So I ended up keeping my name. (My kids have my husband's last name but the cats have my last name!). So now when telemarketers call and ask for "Mrs. Husband's name" I can honestly say there is noone there by that name!

[epchick]

Originally Posted by nittanyalum

And then there's the hispanic naming conventions where the children take both the father and the mother's surnames. Some women never drop those surnames as their "maiden name" and just add their husband's name with "de X" after their proper full surname.

I just have to say that i'm not sure about all "hispanics" but using "de" is not very common in Mexican tradition. So many women just add the husband's last name to the end w/o the "de." In fact, I haven't heard of using "de" until you mentioned it.

And for children (if i can remember correctly) its Firstname Middlename father'slastname mother'smaidenname.

[catiebug]

In Chile, many women are starting to use the "de" with their husband's last name. For instance, if a woman's name is Maria Mercedes Santiago Serena (she would sign her name Maria Mercedes Santiago S.), she might style herself Maria Mercedes Santiago de Balboa.

Originally Posted by epchick

I just have to say that i'm not sure about all "hispanics" but using "de" is not very common in Mexican tradition. So many women just add the husband's last name to the end w/o the "de." In fact, I haven't heard of using "de" until you mentioned it.

And for children (if i can remember correctly) its Firstname Middlename father'slastname mother'smaidenname.