National sororities that pioneered on a campus

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by Leslie Anne

Honestly, I'm just not seeing what's so interesting about this. I guess I should stay out of your threads from now on, oldu. Once you've posted all possible scenarios I'm sure I'll hear who "the winner" is and when the parade is scheduled.

I know others have commented on this, but I just wanted to say that I see his efforts as 'bean-counting' - nothing bad, just interesting stuff. And it all depends on what the basis of the comparisons are. That basis may or may not be really important, just interesting. I do like some of the alternative comparisons some of y'all have suggested. Overall though, I think oldu's basic premise is 'bigger = better'. *I* think his efforts are geared towards finding that one, definitive criterion that firmly establishes a particular GLO as being the "best". I think he is looking for an objective answer with very subjective standards.

And, btw, my sorority was the last sorority to join the NPHC, and we are also the smallest of the NPHC sororities, so I don't expect to find us on any of oldu's lists. (<---- not really)

[oldu]

I do think size is a fairly important factor at arriving at how we rank a particular group (by whatever standard you choose), especially on a given campus. After all, the largest is either the most popular (by the number who choose to join) or the best at retaining members (smartest, happiest, best adjusted?). On the national level it is a little different. By most people's standards the largest is not necessarily the best; however, it is unlikely any group could be considered the best if its number of chapters was substantially smaller than the norm. My own bias is more likely to note where those chapters at located. I'd much rather have a good chapter at University of Illinois-Champaign than Southern Illinois-Edwardsville. In defense of my many comparisons, I think it is interesting at how different the top group is in each of the comparisons, indicating that there are many standards by which we can judge how well our particular group stands up against others.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by oldu

By most people's standards the largest is not necessarily the best; however, it is unlikely any group could be considered the best if its number of chapters was substantially smaller than the norm. My own bias is more likely to note where those chapters at located. I'd much rather have a good chapter at University of Illinois-Champaign than Southern Illinois-Edwardsville.

Now see, this is where you start to tick people off, with crap like this. What's wrong with SIUE? Do you agree with the sororities and fraternities that keep open subpar chapters just so they can say they're at [insert Ivy/SEC/Big 10 school here] or so they can say they have the most chapters? I mean, it's really pretty easy to have a lot of chapters if you don't care about their composition.

If you're really doing this as a "service" just present the data, and skip the commentary.

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by oldu

My own bias is more likely to note where those chapters at located. I'd much rather have a good chapter at University of Illinois-Champaign than Southern Illinois-Edwardsville.

what about SIUC?

[sigmadiva]

Originally Posted by oldu

I do think size is a fairly important factor ....

I'm going to assume that you are a guy, so, yeah, size is important to you.

But, seriously, I think your assumption that 'bigger = best' is a bit skewed. Some people purposely look for the "medium" or "smaller" org, school, group, church, whatever, because they feel that it is the best fit for them. And that is really the point - find what is best for you, whether it is considered "big" or not.

All in all oldu, you are just one person who is interested in only one aspect of greek life. If it makes you happy to do what you do, go for it.

[Senusret I]

I can believe it, what with oldu limiting the list to sororities only and presumably including HBCUs. (Of which there are like 97 not counting 2-year schools) ((Or HBCUs that closed))

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

I can believe it, what with oldu limiting the list to sororities only and presumably including HBCUs. (Of which there are like 97 not counting 2-year schools) ((Or HBCUs that closed))

ding, ding, ding. lightbulb comes on. yep I didn't even think about HBCUs--I guess I had become used to them not being included.

[oldu]

I like to do comparisons because, despite the protestations, people like them. Why is the US News comparison of colleges by far their most popular issue? I can almost always count on someone immediately protesting that the comparison means nothing if their organization is not as high as they would like or think it should be. Every year dozens of college officials protest the US News study a waste or unfair, yet the can't wait to see next year's comparison. That people can see thir own organization by several different standards is what makes it relevant.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by oldu

I like to do comparisons because, despite the protestations, people like them. Why is the US News comparison of colleges by far their most popular issue?

Because people are sheeple and lazy and would rather some survey tell them what's the "best" college than to figure it out for themselves, or to ask hard questions about how the data was collected.

[Leslie Anne]

Originally Posted by oldu

I can almost always count on someone immediately protesting that the comparison means nothing if their organization is not as high as they would like or think it should be.

Yep, I was expecting that. I honestly don't care where my organization falls in your comparisons. I know Kappa Delta better than you do. It's more to me than a bunch of statistics. We aren't the oldest; we aren't the biggest. I'm perfectly fine with that. It doesn't diminish Kappa Delta in my eyes.

I think this all comes down to completely different perspectives and values. There are those who are consumed with status. Personally, I find it to be a sign of insecurity. I value different things in my organization than the statistics you've presented. What I love about my sorority and what I admire in other organizations can't be quantified.

So, I'll leave you to your comparisons. You're enjoying the research and others appreciate your effort. That's all well and good. It's just not for me.

Toodles!

Originally Posted by Leslie Anne

Yep, I was expecting that. I honestly don't care where my organization falls in your comparisons. I know Kappa Delta better than you do. It's more to me than a bunch of statistics. We aren't the oldest; we aren't the biggest. I'm perfectly fine with that. It doesn't diminish Kappa Delta in my eyes.

I think this all comes down to completely different perspectives and values. There are those who are consumed with status. Personally, I find it to be a sign of insecurity. I value different things in my organization than the statistics you've presented. What I love about my sorority and what I admire in other organizations can't be quantified.

So, I'll leave you to your comparisons. You're enjoying the research and others appreciate your effort. That's all well and good. It's just not for me.

Toodles!

I don't think it can be said any better than this.

Brava!

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Leslie Anne

I think this all comes down to completely different perspectives and values. There are those who are consumed with status. Personally, I find it to be a sign of insecurity. I value different things in my organization than the statistics you've presented. What I love about my sorority and what I admire in other organizations can't be quantified.

Very well said.

Historical info is great as long as it's kept in perspective.

[Cutie_Hootie]

Originally Posted by oldu

I like to do comparisons because, despite the protestations, people like them. Why is the US News comparison of colleges by far their most popular issue? I can almost always count on someone immediately protesting that the comparison means nothing if their organization is not as high as they would like or think it should be. Every year dozens of college officials protest the US News study a waste or unfair, yet the can't wait to see next year's comparison. That people can see thir own organization by several different standards is what makes it relevant.

I rarely, if ever, respond to these topics, but I always read them. I have to say I've truly enjoyed everything oldu has shared thus far. I know Chi Omega's history, but I know very little about other organizations, especially those who are not on my campus. Reading these posts has taught me a great deal, and made me curious to learn the stories BEHIND the statistics (for example--It was mentioned earlier that Gamma Phi Beta was very selective for a period...why?) Those are the aspects of Greek history I find fascinating.

[SWTXBelle]

Cutie Hootie - I too like reading these historical perspectives. My Gamma Phi history is currently packed, so I'm just paraphrasing, but Gamma Phi had a decidely anti-expansion mindset for a while, and it was a bit of a struggle to change. Many feared that we would lose our close sisterhood or perhaps worry more about quantity over quality. These fears may seem quaint now, but if you think of the way the world was changing at the turn of the 19th century then I think it makes a little more sense. This is true of some other NPC groups - they were hesitant to expand at a rapid rate. Others, such as your beloved Chi O, had a very pro-expansion policy from early on. One of the things that I find interesting about the NPC groups is the many varied roads our groups took from their foundings to today.

[Just interested]

We need another edition of Baird's to update us on our progress as GLOs. I, too, find it interesting and enlightening. I'm glad I'm not the only one that finds this information interesting. I guess it is because I'm old.