Toast Song

[arvid1978]

Originally Posted by naraht

I don't think any of the Regions really tried for co-ed or die at any time prior to 2006...

No, I'm not saying they were directed to go co-ed or die, I'm just guessing that the chapters in Indiana that didn't go co-ed all died out, because up until recently they were down to, what 7-8 chapters in the state out of 16 or so charters total?

[naraht]

Originally Posted by arvid1978

No, I'm not saying they were directed to go co-ed or die, I'm just guessing that the chapters in Indiana that didn't go co-ed all died out, because up until recently they were down to, what 7-8 chapters in the state out of 16 or so charters total?

Well, that is about the average for the Fraternity, we only have about half of our charters active.

[KAPital PHINUst]

Originally Posted by naraht

Well, that is about the average for the Fraternity, we only have about half of our charters active.

That has always been that way for at least as long as I have been a brother (15 years +). Personally I find that to be pretty dang pathetic, but that's just me.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by KAPital PHINUst

That has always been that way for at least as long as I have been a brother (15 years +). Personally I find that to be pretty dang pathetic, but that's just me.

Well, I tend to look at the glass as more than half full in at least some ways. There are certainly inactive chapters at schools that ,IMO,*should* have chapters that only lack someone to get it started like University of Kansas, UN-Reno or U of Miami. However, I'm not sure that these represent a majority of the inactive chapters in the Fraternity.

I'd say that a siginificant number of those schools with inactive chapters are schools that fall into one of a couple of categories:

A) Closed, there are 13 chapters that will never exist again, including Central YMCA where APO President Pinky Hirsch initiated.

B) Smaller Community Colleges. APO has (at a guess about 40 charters mostly from the late 1960s and 1970s) that are at CCs, and while some are larger like the ones at Tarrant County, OTOH, you have a few like Herkimer County (NY) Community College where the total *county* population is 64,000 (a little bigger that the student body of Ohio State).

C) Religious Schools that right now don't trust anything calling itself a Fraternity and only trusted us back in the 30's, 40's & 50's because the Council Scout Executive (a good God fearing man) talked directly to the Dean of Men. (Perhaps an exageration, but for a few, I expect pretty close).


It also varies *significantly* from area to area. Western Pennsylvania (64/65/66) has 21 active and 3 inactive. OTOH, New York city/LI (97)has 3 active and 16 inactive. (oddly enough there are areas of significant percentage of the chapters are inactive at each of the compass points (Wisconsin, NYC, LA/MS and UT))

The closest two inactive chapters to where I am sitting are not likely targets any time soon. Gallaudet University (I still don't understand why) and Northern Virginia Community College-Annandale. Instead, the extension in the area is to schools where we haven't had chapters before: Uof DC, U of Maryland-Baltimore County and Salisbury University...

YiLFS
Randolph Finder

[GMUAPhiOAdvisor]

Originally Posted by naraht

The closest two inactive chapters to where I am sitting are not likely targets any time soon. Gallaudet University (I still don't understand why) and Northern Virginia Community College-Annandale. Instead, the extension in the area is to schools where we haven't had chapters before: Uof DC, U of Maryland-Baltimore County and Salisbury University...

YiLFS
Randolph Finder

Randy,
As a former Gallaudet student, I "think" I know why Gally isn't on the list for rechartering. There are several factors to take into account:

1) The language barrier. Other than myself, I have yet to meet another fluent, hearing signer who could go in and help the rechartering efforts. That, coupled with having someone learn all rituals in ASL (which I had to do for my social sorority, at a National Convention no less, which I joined at Gally). From experience, I can tell you it's no easy feat.

2) All Gally students are required to complete 80 hours of community service prior to graduation. Given that they already have to do this, having a service fraternity only duplicates the required hours. Again, from experience, I have heard enough grumbling from students about THOSE hours, and I'm not sure anyone would join A Phi O to do more.

3) As the face of Gallaudet changes, so too does the face of the Greek system. There are several social GLOs on campus, but few of them are "national" organizations. Gallaudet, being the center of the Deaf community, has several GLOs that were founded by Deaf, for Deaf. There are currently four social sororities - Phi Kappa Zeta, Delta Epsilon, Alpha Sigma Theta and Delta Zeta. Of these, DZ is the only national group and the reason it was only chartered there is because DZ's national philanthropy is speech and hearing. Not that this is exactly what Gallaudet stands for, but back in the 90's, Gally was not as "Deaf-centric" as it is now. Then, it was more accepting of people whose first language wasn't ASL. Now, as the Deaf community shrinks due to genetic testing and the implantation of cochlear implants in younger and younger children, the Deaf community has become more insular. (This is a similar situation with the social fraternities as well)

4) As the number of Deaf of Deaf shrinks, so does the number of incoming students into the school. The incoming freshman class when I started at Gally (2001-2002) was less than 300 students, and of those 7 of us were hearing. The school is struggling to stay viable now, and it will only get worse as the years pass. With that "shrinkage", the student body will become more "Deaf" and those students who are from generationally Deaf families will want to join the fraternities and sororities that mom and dad joined, and those will tend towards the ones that were founded by the Deaf, for the Deaf.

HOWEVER...having said all this, should A Phi O choose to try and recharter at Gally, I'm happy to lend a hand (or both, as they're both used in ASL )

[naraht]

Originally Posted by GMUAPhiOAdvisor

Randy,
As a former Gallaudet student, I "think" I know why Gally isn't on the list for rechartering. There are several factors to take into account:

1) The language barrier. Other than myself, I have yet to meet another fluent, hearing signer who could go in and help the rechartering efforts. That, coupled with having someone learn all rituals in ASL (which I had to do for my social sorority, at a National Convention no less, which I joined at Gally). From experience, I can tell you it's no easy feat.

2) All Gally students are required to complete 80 hours of community service prior to graduation. Given that they already have to do this, having a service fraternity only duplicates the required hours. Again, from experience, I have heard enough grumbling from students about THOSE hours, and I'm not sure anyone would join A Phi O to do more.

3) As the face of Gallaudet changes, so too does the face of the Greek system. There are several social GLOs on campus, but few of them are "national" organizations. Gallaudet, being the center of the Deaf community, has several GLOs that were founded by Deaf, for Deaf. There are currently four social sororities - Phi Kappa Zeta, Delta Epsilon, Alpha Sigma Theta and Delta Zeta. Of these, DZ is the only national group and the reason it was only chartered there is because DZ's national philanthropy is speech and hearing. Not that this is exactly what Gallaudet stands for, but back in the 90's, Gally was not as "Deaf-centric" as it is now. Then, it was more accepting of people whose first language wasn't ASL. Now, as the Deaf community shrinks due to genetic testing and the implantation of cochlear implants in younger and younger children, the Deaf community has become more insular. (This is a similar situation with the social fraternities as well)

4) As the number of Deaf of Deaf shrinks, so does the number of incoming students into the school. The incoming freshman class when I started at Gally (2001-2002) was less than 300 students, and of those 7 of us were hearing. The school is struggling to stay viable now, and it will only get worse as the years pass. With that "shrinkage", the student body will become more "Deaf" and those students who are from generationally Deaf families will want to join the fraternities and sororities that mom and dad joined, and those will tend towards the ones that were founded by the Deaf, for the Deaf.

HOWEVER...having said all this, should A Phi O choose to try and recharter at Gally, I'm happy to lend a hand (or both, as they're both used in ASL )

1) It was done once, is there any way that how it was done could have been recorded somewhere? I don't know if they would have filmed it, but is there any way to write down an official list of what signs are used for a translation? I know that there was discussion on how to translate the toast song in the '90s because it seemed to be done differently at each National Convention. An alumnus might be the way to go there. I believe that Gally does *better* than most other schools in keeping track of Alumni.

2) I know at some schools that have required community service hours that hours done through the chapter can be counted if they properly keep up with the paperwork. That might be a solution at Gally.

3) Not sure why Delta Sigma Phi National Fraternity though. Can't find a Speach/Language connection. I didn't realize the extent that Cochlear Implants have changed. From looking at the Wikipedia entry, it seems that just about any person with a functioning Auditory nerve can get one. (And as you indicated in 4, not having a functioning Auditory nerve at all is more likely than other types of deafness to be genetic.

That was one thing I realized very early with Gallaudet and its culture. If you asked 100 African Americans or 100 Hispanics "Would the world be a better place if there were no more of X?" (X being your group), you would get *presumably* 100 noes(maybe one extreme self-hater). If you asked 100 paraplegics or 100 blind people, you'd probably get 100 yeses (maybe slightly fewer with blindness). If you asked 100 deaf (and yes, using lowercase d was deliberate, almost anyone who uses capital D would say no) people, you'd get some number between 10 and 90 and the two groups would start arguing...

4) There is a *lot* of data on enrollment at Gally at http://www.gallaudet.edu/x2294.xml , which does seem to indicate gradually descending numbers... I'm really not sure how low the numbers would have to go before there would be serious talk at closing the school. A more likely problem might be accredidation or NCAA issues. Gallaudet has graduation numbers that are frankly hideous. As I read their numbers, from the 2008 document (http://ims.gallaudet.edu/pdf/20080227-0001.pdf), only 11% of their entering freshmen from the Fall 2000 class graduated in four years, 26% in five years, 34% in six years and 37% in seven years. However, other years were worse. (only 6% of the entering Fall 1996 freshmen graduated in 4 years). In that respect it is covering an academically *huge* spread of students, from those who if hearing would have only have only tried for admission to their local community college, to those who if hearing might have applied for Cal Tech or Harvard.

OK, if the students are more likely to join Greeks their parents belonged to, maybe we can find some Alpha Phi Omega legacies...

[GMUAPhiOAdvisor]

Originally Posted by naraht

1) It was done once, is there any way that how it was done could have been recorded somewhere? I don't know if they would have filmed it, but is there any way to write down an official list of what signs are used for a translation? I know that there was discussion on how to translate the toast song in the '90s because it seemed to be done differently at each National Convention. An alumnus might be the way to go there. I believe that Gally does *better* than most other schools in keeping track of Alumni.

Probably. I know that the toast song was interpreted at a national convention (96, I think) and was supposed to be on the APO website, but I could never find it. Personally, I know that I could interpret all of the rituals we have, because I have a much better working knowledge of them than I ever did of DZ's rituals. A Phi O's are much shorter, as well, meaning my arms wouldn't fall off, as I thought they might when I interpreted a DZ initiation. I doubt any ritual would have been video-taped, as one would likely capture sound as well as the signing and, should that tape fall into a non-brother's hands..............

And yes, Gally does keep great records of its alums....I'll tap a few people and see if I can turn up any DC area brothers who might be in the know. One thing to be cautious of: Students at Gally, regardless of if their GLO is a local or a national, tend to do things "their way". This became a huge bone of contention with me when I was CCD (Chapter Advisor term for DZ) of the Gally chapter after I left. If the A Phi O chapter chose to do things the Gally way, i wouldn't be surprised if the charter wasn't pulled for hazing. Believe me, it happens A LOT. (Again, a voice of experience here)

Originally Posted by naraht

2) I know at some schools that have required community service hours that hours done through the chapter can be counted if they properly keep up with the paperwork. That might be a solution at Gally.

Could be....again, I'm willing to help out, if need be.

Originally Posted by naraht

3) Not sure why Delta Sigma Phi National Fraternity though. Can't find a Speach/Language connection. I didn't realize the extent that Cochlear Implants have changed. From looking at the Wikipedia entry, it seems that just about any person with a functioning Auditory nerve can get one. (And as you indicated in 4, not having a functioning Auditory nerve at all is more likely than other types of deafness to be genetic.

Same question with Kappa Sigma Fraternity. There tends to be a little more leniency amongst the administration about allowing national (read non-Deaf) fraternities on campus. I don't know why, but when the sororities wanted to expand, admin insisted on another Deaf sorority. DZ, at best, is tolerated by the administration. I have extensive stories about the copious amounts of crap I put up with when I rushed and pledged.
As for CI's, yes, they've changed and not all for the better. A common misconception the parents of a deaf child have is that a CI will make their child hearing. In reality all it does is make their child work harder to interpret mechanical sounds and, after months or years of training, memorize what those mechanical sounds represent. CIs don't make you hear the way you and I do, nor do they amplify natural sounds. They simply give a deaf person a database of knowledge to choose from to decipher the sounds they hear, after all that training. I have a sorority sister who got one, after using hearing aids all her life, and she said it was like learning to hear all over again.

Originally Posted by naraht

That was one thing I realized very early with Gallaudet and its culture. If you asked 100 African Americans or 100 Hispanics "Would the world be a better place if there were no more of X?" (X being your group), you would get *presumably* 100 noes(maybe one extreme self-hater). If you asked 100 paraplegics or 100 blind people, you'd probably get 100 yeses (maybe slightly fewer with blindness). If you asked 100 deaf (and yes, using lowercase d was deliberate, almost anyone who uses capital D would say no) people, you'd get some number between 10 and 90 and the two groups would start arguing...

You know a good deal about the Deaf community and its culture.....any background info you care to share?

Originally Posted by naraht

4) There is a *lot* of data on enrollment at Gally at http://www.gallaudet.edu/x2294.xml , which does seem to indicate gradually descending numbers... I'm really not sure how low the numbers would have to go before there would be serious talk at closing the school. A more likely problem might be accredidation or NCAA issues. Gallaudet has graduation numbers that are frankly hideous. As I read their numbers, from the 2008 document (http://ims.gallaudet.edu/pdf/20080227-0001.pdf), only 11% of their entering freshmen from the Fall 2000 class graduated in four years, 26% in five years, 34% in six years and 37% in seven years. However, other years were worse. (only 6% of the entering Fall 1996 freshmen graduated in 4 years). In that respect it is covering an academically *huge* spread of students, from those who if hearing would have only have only tried for admission to their local community college, to those who if hearing might have applied for Cal Tech or Harvard.

I agree. Their inability to graduate their students is horrendous, but not completely their fault. One thing to remember is that Deaf students who attend a Deaf residential school learn English as a second language. After the Milan Conference of 1880, when all Deaf teachers were ousted from their teaching positions and replaced with Oralists, it fell to the Deaf community to keep ASL going in secret, mostly in the dorms after the teachers had left for the day. As the Oralists weren't successful in abolishing ASL, they were successful in reducing the number of qualified Deaf teachers, thereby leaving the education of these children to those who, once teaching in ASL was no longer forbidden, weren't native signers. Combine that with the "English is better, teach them in signs that are in English word order" and you continue to keep the Deaf community under the oppressive thumb of the much larger hearing society. Add to that mix the teaching of English by more skilled signers, in whatever word order you want, and you've got college students at Gally who are learning basic English sentence structure when they're freshmen in college!! And then, the professors aren't Deaf, and they expect the students to be "fluent" in written English. I can't tell you how many English papers I edited when i was a student there, simply because I had English as my native language. It did help the overall GPA of my sorority, let me tell you!!

Add to this mix Deaf students from around the world for whom ASL and English are their 3rd and 4th languages, and you've got horrible graduation rates. OH, and their drop-out and return rates are higher than most colleges, too. Many students come, feel they can't succeed, go to work for years, then come back and finish their education. Just as an example, my little sister in my sorority is 8 years older than I am, and I rushed and became a sister at 32yo!!!!

Because of the shrinking number of Deaf of Deaf children (about 5% right now) enrollment in residential schools is also at an all time low, and there are several states whose schools have closed or become Bi-Bi schools(bi-lingual, bi-cultural), where you're as likely to hear the kids talking as you are to see them signing. These schools, that once boasted only signers, have now opened their doors to kids with CI's and some have begun to allow kids with a lot more residual hearing than they ever have, simply to keep from having to close their doors forever.

All of this adds up to the campus culture of Gally changing, and not to the liking of those Deaf of Deaf kids, who never wanted the likes of me on their campus. Hence, the protests that Jane Fernandez wasn't "Deaf enough" for them anymore. BTW, welcome to DPN20!! But to the "closing of the school"? I seriously doubt it will ever happen. There are always going to be Deaf students who want to be educated at a Deaf university. Many of my classmates were what used to be known as "ORAL-FAIL", meaning they tried to learn to speak and function in the hearing world and couldn't, so they left their "hearing" university and came to Gally. The one thing about Gally is, if you're Deaf, or HoH, you will get in. Yes, there are placement tests, and yes, you can be put in remedial classes. But much fewer students are in those classes for YEARS like they were back in the 80s and 90s. And for those 5% DofD kids? They know eachother, they meet through their parents, they date, have kids and the numbers may grow. I know enough students that had kids while still in school and the number of them that gave birth to Deaf children was astonishing......put the statistics to shame! The Deaf community will never go away, nor will Gally. (IMHO)

Originally Posted by naraht

OK, if the students are more likely to join Greeks their parents belonged to, maybe we can find some Alpha Phi Omega legacies...

Like I said...I'm happy to tap some resources. I still have friends on the inside.

[arvid1978]

Originally Posted by KAPital PHINUst

That has always been that way for at least as long as I have been a brother (15 years +). Personally I find that to be pretty dang pathetic, but that's just me.

Eh, I don't see it as pathetic, it's a sign of the ever-changing dynamics and demographics of college students. It would be great to get some of our inactive charters back, but sometimes it just isn't in the cards. Considering how groundbreaking APO has been in terms of it's expansion (taking a fraternity based on Scouting, with 100% Caucasian founders and chapters, to HBCU's during the time of "separate but equal, opening membership to women and treating them as equals during a time when most women were sent to college to get their "Mrs.", bringing APO to commuter schools), there had to be something that wouldn't work out very well. Expanding to community colleges during the 60's and 70's is our something that didn't work out well. We were too aggressive and didn't take into consideration the fluidity and turnover of community college students, which is much higher than at four-year campuses. I think it could work at some community colleges (granted, I'm a sponsor to a community college effort), but the student dynamic has to be right, the section support constant, and the advisory committee phenomenal, but I digress.

There is also the general rebellion against all Greek-lettered organizations that you found in the 60's to 80's. ALL groups suffered membership losses, some national organizations even folded altogether. Those that could adapt to changing student needs survived, those who couldn't or wouldn't...didn't.