Toast Song

[naraht]

Originally Posted by arvid1978

I wouldn't count Tau Lambda (Rose-Hulman) either, as it wasn't single-gender by choice. I honestly do not know how long it took our chapters to go co-ed. I'm confident in saying that most of Illinois (at the time) went co-ed right away, if they weren't already jumping the gun. I'd assume Indiana, with it's large number of inactive chapters, probably did "co-ed or die". No idea about Michigan, though.

From what I understand Tau Lambda asked the RD whether they needed to go co-ed as soon as the school did and were *specifically* told they didn't have to get one of the first six women who were students and that it probably wasn't a good idea if they tried. They however did get one of the next group of women (~20) on campus.

I don't think any of the Regions really tried for co-ed or die at any time prior to 2006...

Randy

[arvid1978]

Originally Posted by naraht

I don't think any of the Regions really tried for co-ed or die at any time prior to 2006...

No, I'm not saying they were directed to go co-ed or die, I'm just guessing that the chapters in Indiana that didn't go co-ed all died out, because up until recently they were down to, what 7-8 chapters in the state out of 16 or so charters total?

[naraht]

Originally Posted by arvid1978

No, I'm not saying they were directed to go co-ed or die, I'm just guessing that the chapters in Indiana that didn't go co-ed all died out, because up until recently they were down to, what 7-8 chapters in the state out of 16 or so charters total?

Well, that is about the average for the Fraternity, we only have about half of our charters active.

[KAPital PHINUst]

Originally Posted by naraht

Well, that is about the average for the Fraternity, we only have about half of our charters active.

That has always been that way for at least as long as I have been a brother (15 years +). Personally I find that to be pretty dang pathetic, but that's just me.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by KAPital PHINUst

That has always been that way for at least as long as I have been a brother (15 years +). Personally I find that to be pretty dang pathetic, but that's just me.

Well, I tend to look at the glass as more than half full in at least some ways. There are certainly inactive chapters at schools that ,IMO,*should* have chapters that only lack someone to get it started like University of Kansas, UN-Reno or U of Miami. However, I'm not sure that these represent a majority of the inactive chapters in the Fraternity.

I'd say that a siginificant number of those schools with inactive chapters are schools that fall into one of a couple of categories:

A) Closed, there are 13 chapters that will never exist again, including Central YMCA where APO President Pinky Hirsch initiated.

B) Smaller Community Colleges. APO has (at a guess about 40 charters mostly from the late 1960s and 1970s) that are at CCs, and while some are larger like the ones at Tarrant County, OTOH, you have a few like Herkimer County (NY) Community College where the total *county* population is 64,000 (a little bigger that the student body of Ohio State).

C) Religious Schools that right now don't trust anything calling itself a Fraternity and only trusted us back in the 30's, 40's & 50's because the Council Scout Executive (a good God fearing man) talked directly to the Dean of Men. (Perhaps an exageration, but for a few, I expect pretty close).


It also varies *significantly* from area to area. Western Pennsylvania (64/65/66) has 21 active and 3 inactive. OTOH, New York city/LI (97)has 3 active and 16 inactive. (oddly enough there are areas of significant percentage of the chapters are inactive at each of the compass points (Wisconsin, NYC, LA/MS and UT))

The closest two inactive chapters to where I am sitting are not likely targets any time soon. Gallaudet University (I still don't understand why) and Northern Virginia Community College-Annandale. Instead, the extension in the area is to schools where we haven't had chapters before: Uof DC, U of Maryland-Baltimore County and Salisbury University...

YiLFS
Randolph Finder

[GMUAPhiOAdvisor]

Originally Posted by naraht

The closest two inactive chapters to where I am sitting are not likely targets any time soon. Gallaudet University (I still don't understand why) and Northern Virginia Community College-Annandale. Instead, the extension in the area is to schools where we haven't had chapters before: Uof DC, U of Maryland-Baltimore County and Salisbury University...

YiLFS
Randolph Finder

Randy,
As a former Gallaudet student, I "think" I know why Gally isn't on the list for rechartering. There are several factors to take into account:

1) The language barrier. Other than myself, I have yet to meet another fluent, hearing signer who could go in and help the rechartering efforts. That, coupled with having someone learn all rituals in ASL (which I had to do for my social sorority, at a National Convention no less, which I joined at Gally). From experience, I can tell you it's no easy feat.

2) All Gally students are required to complete 80 hours of community service prior to graduation. Given that they already have to do this, having a service fraternity only duplicates the required hours. Again, from experience, I have heard enough grumbling from students about THOSE hours, and I'm not sure anyone would join A Phi O to do more.

3) As the face of Gallaudet changes, so too does the face of the Greek system. There are several social GLOs on campus, but few of them are "national" organizations. Gallaudet, being the center of the Deaf community, has several GLOs that were founded by Deaf, for Deaf. There are currently four social sororities - Phi Kappa Zeta, Delta Epsilon, Alpha Sigma Theta and Delta Zeta. Of these, DZ is the only national group and the reason it was only chartered there is because DZ's national philanthropy is speech and hearing. Not that this is exactly what Gallaudet stands for, but back in the 90's, Gally was not as "Deaf-centric" as it is now. Then, it was more accepting of people whose first language wasn't ASL. Now, as the Deaf community shrinks due to genetic testing and the implantation of cochlear implants in younger and younger children, the Deaf community has become more insular. (This is a similar situation with the social fraternities as well)

4) As the number of Deaf of Deaf shrinks, so does the number of incoming students into the school. The incoming freshman class when I started at Gally (2001-2002) was less than 300 students, and of those 7 of us were hearing. The school is struggling to stay viable now, and it will only get worse as the years pass. With that "shrinkage", the student body will become more "Deaf" and those students who are from generationally Deaf families will want to join the fraternities and sororities that mom and dad joined, and those will tend towards the ones that were founded by the Deaf, for the Deaf.

HOWEVER...having said all this, should A Phi O choose to try and recharter at Gally, I'm happy to lend a hand (or both, as they're both used in ASL )

[naraht]

Originally Posted by GMUAPhiOAdvisor

Randy,
As a former Gallaudet student, I "think" I know why Gally isn't on the list for rechartering. There are several factors to take into account:

1) The language barrier. Other than myself, I have yet to meet another fluent, hearing signer who could go in and help the rechartering efforts. That, coupled with having someone learn all rituals in ASL (which I had to do for my social sorority, at a National Convention no less, which I joined at Gally). From experience, I can tell you it's no easy feat.

2) All Gally students are required to complete 80 hours of community service prior to graduation. Given that they already have to do this, having a service fraternity only duplicates the required hours. Again, from experience, I have heard enough grumbling from students about THOSE hours, and I'm not sure anyone would join A Phi O to do more.

3) As the face of Gallaudet changes, so too does the face of the Greek system. There are several social GLOs on campus, but few of them are "national" organizations. Gallaudet, being the center of the Deaf community, has several GLOs that were founded by Deaf, for Deaf. There are currently four social sororities - Phi Kappa Zeta, Delta Epsilon, Alpha Sigma Theta and Delta Zeta. Of these, DZ is the only national group and the reason it was only chartered there is because DZ's national philanthropy is speech and hearing. Not that this is exactly what Gallaudet stands for, but back in the 90's, Gally was not as "Deaf-centric" as it is now. Then, it was more accepting of people whose first language wasn't ASL. Now, as the Deaf community shrinks due to genetic testing and the implantation of cochlear implants in younger and younger children, the Deaf community has become more insular. (This is a similar situation with the social fraternities as well)

4) As the number of Deaf of Deaf shrinks, so does the number of incoming students into the school. The incoming freshman class when I started at Gally (2001-2002) was less than 300 students, and of those 7 of us were hearing. The school is struggling to stay viable now, and it will only get worse as the years pass. With that "shrinkage", the student body will become more "Deaf" and those students who are from generationally Deaf families will want to join the fraternities and sororities that mom and dad joined, and those will tend towards the ones that were founded by the Deaf, for the Deaf.

HOWEVER...having said all this, should A Phi O choose to try and recharter at Gally, I'm happy to lend a hand (or both, as they're both used in ASL )

1) It was done once, is there any way that how it was done could have been recorded somewhere? I don't know if they would have filmed it, but is there any way to write down an official list of what signs are used for a translation? I know that there was discussion on how to translate the toast song in the '90s because it seemed to be done differently at each National Convention. An alumnus might be the way to go there. I believe that Gally does *better* than most other schools in keeping track of Alumni.

2) I know at some schools that have required community service hours that hours done through the chapter can be counted if they properly keep up with the paperwork. That might be a solution at Gally.

3) Not sure why Delta Sigma Phi National Fraternity though. Can't find a Speach/Language connection. I didn't realize the extent that Cochlear Implants have changed. From looking at the Wikipedia entry, it seems that just about any person with a functioning Auditory nerve can get one. (And as you indicated in 4, not having a functioning Auditory nerve at all is more likely than other types of deafness to be genetic.

That was one thing I realized very early with Gallaudet and its culture. If you asked 100 African Americans or 100 Hispanics "Would the world be a better place if there were no more of X?" (X being your group), you would get *presumably* 100 noes(maybe one extreme self-hater). If you asked 100 paraplegics or 100 blind people, you'd probably get 100 yeses (maybe slightly fewer with blindness). If you asked 100 deaf (and yes, using lowercase d was deliberate, almost anyone who uses capital D would say no) people, you'd get some number between 10 and 90 and the two groups would start arguing...

4) There is a *lot* of data on enrollment at Gally at http://www.gallaudet.edu/x2294.xml , which does seem to indicate gradually descending numbers... I'm really not sure how low the numbers would have to go before there would be serious talk at closing the school. A more likely problem might be accredidation or NCAA issues. Gallaudet has graduation numbers that are frankly hideous. As I read their numbers, from the 2008 document (http://ims.gallaudet.edu/pdf/20080227-0001.pdf), only 11% of their entering freshmen from the Fall 2000 class graduated in four years, 26% in five years, 34% in six years and 37% in seven years. However, other years were worse. (only 6% of the entering Fall 1996 freshmen graduated in 4 years). In that respect it is covering an academically *huge* spread of students, from those who if hearing would have only have only tried for admission to their local community college, to those who if hearing might have applied for Cal Tech or Harvard.

OK, if the students are more likely to join Greeks their parents belonged to, maybe we can find some Alpha Phi Omega legacies...

[arvid1978]

Originally Posted by KAPital PHINUst

That has always been that way for at least as long as I have been a brother (15 years +). Personally I find that to be pretty dang pathetic, but that's just me.

Eh, I don't see it as pathetic, it's a sign of the ever-changing dynamics and demographics of college students. It would be great to get some of our inactive charters back, but sometimes it just isn't in the cards. Considering how groundbreaking APO has been in terms of it's expansion (taking a fraternity based on Scouting, with 100% Caucasian founders and chapters, to HBCU's during the time of "separate but equal, opening membership to women and treating them as equals during a time when most women were sent to college to get their "Mrs.", bringing APO to commuter schools), there had to be something that wouldn't work out very well. Expanding to community colleges during the 60's and 70's is our something that didn't work out well. We were too aggressive and didn't take into consideration the fluidity and turnover of community college students, which is much higher than at four-year campuses. I think it could work at some community colleges (granted, I'm a sponsor to a community college effort), but the student dynamic has to be right, the section support constant, and the advisory committee phenomenal, but I digress.

There is also the general rebellion against all Greek-lettered organizations that you found in the 60's to 80's. ALL groups suffered membership losses, some national organizations even folded altogether. Those that could adapt to changing student needs survived, those who couldn't or wouldn't...didn't.