More demands from Islam

[epchick]

I'm sorry, I'm confused as to why its such a big problem for everyone else if Muslim clerks don't want to handle alcohol? That dude needs to take a chill pill.

I do semi-agree with his idea of Saudi Arabia and the royal family. But the idea of Islam=terrorism is soooo tired. Seriously, get over it.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by epchick

Islam=terrorism is soooo tired. Seriously, get over it.

Islam doesn't necessarily mean someone is a terrorist, but it is a reliable indicator as to whether someone supports or participates in terrorism compared to individuals in other cultures/religions.

Also, the gentleman in the above linked video seems to be protesting a certain form of extremist Islam which is almost exclusively the breeding ground for terrorist ideology.

The idea is repeated so often because it has a kernel of truth.

[RACooper]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Islam doesn't necessarily mean someone is a terrorist, but it is a reliable indicator as to whether someone supports or participates in terrorism compared to individuals in other cultures/religions.

Really is it now?

Me thinks the Brits have had a long experience with terrorism that isn't from just one ideology... just because this "special person" echos you're a not-so-closet bigotry when it comes to Islam doesn't make it so.

This guy just polishes up his xenophobia and underlying bigotry so that it doesn't come off so bad - doesn't change the fact that the underlying motivation for the message is still shit.

The idea is repeated so often because it has a kernel of truth.

The idea is often repeated by xenophobes and bigots, that doesn't make it true - especially given the same social issues (birth control, booze, women's rights, etc.) can be pointed to in parts of America and Canada that are very "Christian" or Mormon.

[Kevin]

You call it xenophobia.

I call it a reasonable response when a host culture exhibits hostility to an immigrant group which demands special accommodations which involve the host culture changing the way they live/behave.

You think he's a xenophobe for not agreeing that the British extremist Muslims should be allowed to set up their own religious courts?

[Kevlar281]

There are Beth Dins in the United States as well as England. Just saying...

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Kevlar281

There are Beth Dins in the United States as well as England. Just saying...

They don't have the legal authority to impose criminal punishments. If they do so, then the Beth Dins are criminal themselves.

I am as much against Sharia courts as I am Jewish, Christian or Zoroastrian courts.

[PhiGam]

Originally Posted by Kevin

You call it xenophobia.

I call it a reasonable response when a host culture exhibits hostility to an immigrant group which demands special accommodations which involve the host culture changing the way they live/behave.

You think he's a xenophobe for not agreeing that the British extremist Muslims should be allowed to set up their own religious courts?

Perfectly stated. What happened to common sense. You should certainly permit immigrants to come into the country but allowing them to change everything to be like the country that they EMIGRATED FROM is absolutely ridiculous. If you want traditional muslim law then go to Saudi Arabia, if you want western style government then you can live in America or the UK.

[RACooper]

Originally Posted by Kevin

You call it xenophobia.

I call it a reasonable response when a host culture exhibits hostility to an immigrant group which demands special accommodations which involve the host culture changing the way they live/behave.

Call it what you will but it's still xenophobia fueled I suspect by a fair amount of bigotry. Culture and society evolves as the components within it change, to assume that change doesn't or shouldn't happen is about as ignorant as demanding that the culture should completely change - society is about accommodation and respect as well as adaptation, both parties need to learn this lest both fall prey to their particular bigotries.

You think he's a xenophobe for not agreeing that the British extremist Muslims should be allowed to set up their own religious courts?

They shouldn't no - any more than the there should be religious courts for Orthodox Jews or Fundamentalist Christians, and yet I don't see the subject in this film commenting on those demands that have also been made repeatedly (well again - English tried the Fundie route under Cromwell before tossing them out) so I have to wonder why he is singling out the Muslims.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by RACooper

Call it what you will but it's still xenophobia fueled I suspect by a fair amount of bigotry. Culture and society evolves as the components within it change, to assume that change doesn't or shouldn't happen is about as ignorant as demanding that the culture should completely change - society is about accommodation and respect as well as adaptation, both parties need to learn this lest both fall prey to their particular bigotries.

Ah yes.. desiring to preserve one's culture makes one a "bigot." No, it's just the hyper-liberalized European way of thinking that is willing to seemingly set aside thousands of years worth of culture for a brand-spanking new immigrant group -- an immigrant group which as been known to harbor and protect individuals who have conspired to kill one's countrymen, treats its women like cattle, etc. I'm not talking about all Muslims, of course. The gentleman in the video makes the distinction as well. Fundamentalist Islam, however, is apparently quite popular in Europe. Like any fundamentalist belief, it is something to be resisted. As far as I know, the Greek Orthodox fundies are being left alone because they more-less keep to themselves. Islamic fundies? Not so much.

Behaving as they do, it's just a matter of time before the Europeans allow themselves to be steamrolled by a vocal minority.

They shouldn't no - any more than the there should be religious courts for Orthodox Jews or Fundamentalist Christians, and yet I don't see the subject in this film commenting on those demands thatd have also been made repeatedly (well again - English tried the Fundie route under Cromwell before tossing them out) so I have to wonder why he is singling out the Muslims.

So you must be a bigot for being against the Sharia courts then? You seem to want it both ways. What right do you have to say that the English courts are superior to the Sharia courts? At least try to be consistent in your position.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Kevin

You call it xenophobia.

I call it a reasonable response when a host culture exhibits hostility to an immigrant group which demands special accommodations which involve the host culture changing the way they live/behave.

You think he's a xenophobe for not agreeing that the British extremist Muslims should be allowed to set up their own religious courts?

No, it's everything around the legitimate points that he makes that makes him a xenophobe.

[epchick]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Islam doesn't necessarily mean someone is a terrorist, but it is a reliable indicator as to whether someone supports or participates in terrorism compared to individuals in other cultures/religions.

Really? So, by your logic, if someone is Muslim they automatically support terrorism? I think that is such a skewed way of viewing people.

Muslims aren't the only terrorists in the world.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by epchick

Really? So, by your logic, if someone is Muslim they automatically support terrorism? I think that is such a skewed way of viewing people.

Muslims aren't the only terrorists in the world.

By my logic? You are reading into things a bit too much.

I know lots of Muslims who are great folks. They are not psychotic fundamentalists. Fundamentalists are the problem, not regular Islamic folks. There are Muslims who support terrorism and those who don't.

As for those who do, I hope the government finds them and kills or imprisons them. As for 'tolerating' them, no, they have declared war on the west, and for that, they should die.

There are, however, a lot of fundamentalists out there who think terrorism is A-OK. Eff them. I wouldn't mind seeing them hanged in the public square for their beliefs.

[PhiGam]

Originally Posted by Kevin

By my logic? You are reading into things a bit too much.

I know lots of Muslims who are great folks. They are not psychotic fundamentalists. Fundamentalists are the problem, not regular Islamic folks. There are Muslims who support terrorism and those who don't.

As for those who do, I hope the government finds them and kills or imprisons them. As for 'tolerating' them, no, they have declared war on the west, and for that, they should die.

There are, however, a lot of fundamentalists out there who think terrorism is A-OK. Eff them. I wouldn't mind seeing them hanged in the public square for their beliefs.

The PC police will lynch you for that.
Oops.

[RACooper]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I know lots of Muslims who are great folks. They are not psychotic fundamentalists. Fundamentalists are the problem, not regular Islamic folks. There are Muslims who support terrorism and those who don't.

Same could be said for any religion or ideology really...

As for those who do, I hope the government finds them and kills or imprisons them. As for 'tolerating' them, no, they have declared war on the west, and for that, they should die.

Does that mean by your logic that those here in the West that have declared war on Islam, Arabs, whatever also should die?

There are, however, a lot of fundamentalists out there who think terrorism is A-OK. Eff them. I wouldn't mind seeing them hanged in the public square for their beliefs.

Heh... I feel the same way about a lot of Christian fundamentalists and evangelicals too - I worry about any crazed group that views the end of the world as a good thing, or wants a return to the horrors of the Puritan theocracy <shudder> (those guys made the Taliban look like laid back party animals by comparison).

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by RACooper

Same could be said for any religion or ideology really...

Except there is no other religion or ideology (except perhaps Communism) that exists in such great numbers and poses a substantial threat. Last I checked, there is only one minority group that kills people for drawing politically incorrect cartoons. An argument might be made that Scientology is really, really bad, but then again, they don't operate in such numbers.

There isn't another group of religious zealots that wants to do things like return Spain to a hyper-Islamic Caliphate.

Unless you're going to argue that George Bush blew up the WTC, I just don't see how you could possibly believe that these folks aren't a threat.

Does that mean by your logic that those here in the West that have declared war on Islam, Arabs, whatever also should die?

I don't think you're reading what I'm writing. I have no problem with Islam. I have a problem with people who want to kill me because of my way of life. Generally, yes, I prefer they die instead of me.

Heh... I feel the same way about a lot of Christian fundamentalists and evangelicals too - I worry about any crazed group that views the end of the world as a good thing, or wants a return to the horrors of the Puritan theocracy <shudder> (those guys made the Taliban look like laid back party animals by comparison).

Nowhere today do Christian fundamentalists or any other sort of fundamentalists exist in such numbers and employ such tactics as extremist Muslims you'll find in Europe, the Middle East, and to a lesser extent in the U.S. When the radical Christianists blow up a major building or commit a really bad act in the name of Jesus, I might change my opinion.