What makes Greek life "hot" in the south?

[pbear19]

Originally Posted by bowsandtoes

This is very close to the point in my opinion. What grinds our gears is that some Joe Smo at North State University can just walk into one of our chapters up there and get a bid (not the case for every Northern chapter, but you get where I'm going). Meanwhile, down here, the exact opposite is true. Even if you're lucky enough to get a bid you then have to work your ass off (if you have a real pledgeship). When they walk around wearing hoodies w/ our letters on them it negates everything that we've worked for to our chapter synonymous with high standards. Again, this doesn't apply to every chapter of every fraternity at every northern university, but you want us to look at any guy with our letters and consider him an equal in our brotherhood? Are you serious?

And I think you beautifully illustrated my point of why so many northerners have such a distaste for what I personally find to be incredibly excessive elitisim.

I openly admit I don't know as much about fraternities and their general beliefs, but is not this attitude about your brothers just as contrary to your ideals as the things you accuse your 'brothers' of doing in the first place? (And what exactly is a 'real pledgeship'? My mind initially leaps straight to hazing, but I hate to think the worst without at least clarifying.)

I just cannot think that you guys would expect people to not be openly hostile and defensive when these kinds of sweeping generalizations are made about your northern chapters.

From my outsiders perspective, the answer to your last question is yes, I did think that fraternity men would look at someone who has been initiated and accepted by their national organization as equal, as a brother. I'll acknowledge my obvious idealism in this case.

[SWTXBelle]

Well, if being a part of the same organization isn't what makes you brothers - if having the same ideals, same creed, having gone through the same ritual, being a part of a chain of men going back over a hundred years isn't what makes you brothers, what does that say about your GLO? You would say a man who has gone through all of that is not your brother because of his choice of clothing? A man who wears a hoodie instantly is somehow inferior? Pardon me for thinking that your standards are rather superficial if that is the case.
I also want to know about this sweeping generalization that all the northern chapters have no standards and will pledge anyone - what is this based on? Running into a few brothers from northern chapters you don't feel would make it on your campus? Are you so sure their standards aren't different, as opposed to inferior? (I know - it's a rhetorical question)
I sincerely don't understand why you would want to remain a part of an inter/national GLO if you feel this strongly. Far better to be a local, and not have to deal with those non-southerners.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

You would say a man who has gone through all of that is not your brother because of his choice of clothing? A man who wears a hoodie instantly is somehow inferior? Pardon me for thinking that your standards are rather superficial if that is the case.

Clothes do tell alot about a person in certain circumstances, but no not on that basis alone obviously.

I also want to know about this sweeping generalization that all the northern chapters have no standards and will pledge anyone - what is this based on?

www.greekchat.com...you should check it out sometime. It usually reaffirms my sweeping generalizations.

Running into a few brothers from northern chapters you don't feel would make it on your campus? Are you so sure their standards aren't different, as opposed to inferior? (I know - it's a rhetorical question)

I've already established they were different. By our standards, inferior.

Fraternity life is so much more than just brotherhood.

It's regional tradition, rites of passage, a status symbol, a method of gaining wealth through connections and so on.

edit: I apologize for being 1 minute late so that you could "render me speechless".

[nittanyalum]

I have male family members that were greek at an expensive, elite Ivy League college in the north and got the crap hazed out of them.

So would they be cool with you guys?

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by nittanyalum

I have male family members that were greek at an expensive, elite Ivy League college in the north and got the crap hazed out of them.

So would they be cool with you guys?

What does hazing have anything to do with it?

And I'd like to say that if we would get along, DKE at Yale because they're so steeped in tradition.

[nittanyalum]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

What does hazing have anything to do with it?

Originally Posted by PhiGam

And if you're wondering what real pledgeship means... maybe you should find out what bows and toes means first.

I guess my inference of the implication is off-base... but I don't think so.


ETA: and maybe you missed that I used the words "expensive" and "elite" because that seems to fit in the requirements being set forth as well... thought their "connections" and access to wealthy and elite stuff would make them cooler with you guys too...

[PhiGam]

Originally Posted by nittanyalum

I guess my inference of the implication is off-base... but I don't think so.


ETA: and maybe you missed that I used the words "expensive" and "elite" because that seems to fit in the requirements being set forth as well... thought their "connections" and access to wealthy and elite stuff would make them cooler with you guys too...

I'm not saying you're off base... I'm saying that if you knew what bows and toes or elephant walk (lol) meant than you would understand what hes saying indirectly.
Also, the fraternities here are only about 600-900 per semester, its the sororities that are expensive.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by nittanyalum

I guess my inference of the implication is off-base... but I don't think so.


ETA: and maybe you missed that I used the words "expensive" and "elite" because that seems to fit in the requirements being set forth as well... thought their "connections" and access to wealthy and elite stuff would make them cooler with you guys too...

Hazing down south is military in nature. Not the bullshit that gets on the national news in California or some place like that. I would say that hazing in the south is in the middle-tier...it's not terribly hard, but it's not soft either...there's alot of other things that go with being a pledge besides hazing and that's what puts our pledge programs in the tops.

They do have better connections and more wealth. DKE at Yale does, at least. I don't know about the other fraternities in the Ivy League. The Ivy League seems to be the exception to the Northern stereotype.

edit: By the way jackass, I believe he was saying "you better find out what bowsandtoes (((((the poster))) means", not the hazing term"

[SWTXBelle]

Oh, silly me - you read some things in an internet chat room that lead you to your generalization about all northern chapters. And here I was thinking you were relying only on rumor and hearsay!

I guess I've got egg on my face!

eta - nittany, does he wear hoodies?

[nittanyalum]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

eta - nittany, does he wear hoodies?

No, I've never seen either in a hoodie. I don't think they'd even know what one was. I also don't know if they were really worn when they were in school anyway.

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

Fraternity life is so much more than just brotherhood.

It's regional tradition, rites of passage, a status symbol, a method of gaining wealth through connections and so on. So, the north doesn't have regional tradition, rites of passage, status symbols, or a method of gaining wealth? I yield to no one in my passionate love for the south, and my appreciation of what makes us different, but I don't see these particular aspects of greek life as being restricted only to the south.

edit: I apologize for being 1 minute late so that you could "render me speechless".

I'm sure you are just intimidated by my hotness.

[bowsandtoes]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Well, if being a part of the same organization isn't what makes you brothers - if having the same ideals, same creed, having gone through the same ritual, being a part of a chain of men going back over a hundred years isn't what makes you brothers, what does that say about your GLO? You would say a man who has gone through all of that is not your brother because of his choice of clothing? A man who wears a hoodie instantly is somehow inferior? Pardon me for thinking that your standards are rather superficial if that is the case.

That's one way to look at it. The only problem is that a lot of the time they haven't gone through the same experience. From rush to pledgeship their experience is not nearly as intense. In our eyes, they haven't "earned it". Maybe it's just my fraternity, who enacted a 'Balanced Man' program that's met widespread criticism for lowering the standards of admittance. I talk to friends from other schools and there we are known as "Sigma Phi Everyone" because the chapters have a reputation of bidding anyone who walks in the door.

Obviously, this is not always the case. I have friends at Northern chapters of my fraternity and other organizations that I have a great deal of respect for because of the way they conduct themselves. It's those chapters I previously described they tend to 'cheapen' I letters that I take exception to.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by bowsandtoes

Maybe it's just my fraternity, who enacted a 'Balanced Man' program that's met widespread criticism for lowering the standards of admittance. I talk to friends from other schools and there we are known as "Sigma Phi Everyone" because the chapters have a reputation of bidding anyone who walks in the door.

I think that as far as that's concerned, it IS fraternity specific since that's a fraternity specific program.

In this case, a policy has been enacted that is directly having an impact on who is chosen for membership and how.

[fantASTic]

Originally Posted by bowsandtoes

That's one way to look at it. The only problem is that a lot of the time they haven't gone through the same experience. From rush to pledgeship their experience is not nearly as intense. In our eyes, they haven't "earned it". Maybe it's just my fraternity, who enacted a 'Balanced Man' program that's met widespread criticism for lowering the standards of admittance. I talk to friends from other schools and there we are known as "Sigma Phi Everyone" because the chapters have a reputation of bidding anyone who walks in the door.

You may say that, but as a Northern greek who knows many Sig Eps personally, I can say with confidence they are one of the top fraternities around, 'despite' their Balanced Man program.

So shut up. I can't believe I have to defend your own fraternity brothers to you.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by fantASTic

You may say that, but as a Northern greek who knows many Sig Eps personally, I can say with confidence they are one of the top fraternities around, 'despite' their Balanced Man program.

So shut up. I can't believe I have to defend your own fraternity brothers to you.

Sig Ep struggles because of Balanced Man in the South. You've got to understand that it does not matter if "they are the top fraternity around" in the north, because they judge by different standards. In the South, Balanced Man is a detriment. It signifies inclusiveness usually. Fraternities are like country clubs. You don't want to join an inclusive country club, you want to join an exclusive one, to raise your social standing and so forth. Hell, Ole Miss Sig Ep took 90 one rush, am I correct? I believe it was close to that.

In my opinion, the top fraternity scenes in the nation are in Alabama and Mississippi some of the poorest states. That being said, you can insult Arkansas for being poor and so forth but we're among some of the best states for greek life.

People are judged by many circumstances not purely on wealth, but generally influenced by wealth. Where they are from, who they know, their manners and ettiquette, their character, their dress, and their actions go into a bid.