Tiers

[blondebutsmart]

Originally Posted by squirrely girl

collegians or pnm's with concern about tiers = too much time on your hands

parents with concern about tiers = low self esteem

Maybe I'm overanalyzing (part of my personality), but it didn't say:

collegians or pnm's with concerns = too much time on one's hands

or

collegians or pnm's with concerns = too much time on their hands



The comment used the word YOUR, so I took it personally because that's what it seemed like to me. Maybe I made a mistake. Sorry. I'm done.

[AKA_Monet]

Maybe I hope for the best in young people and I am quite removed from the college experience.

My question is if the GLO provided the BEST educational experience in addition to all the other wonderful accouterments of greek life, then no matter what tier the organization is, having the required numbers of membership would not matter?

Sure, it is cool to have a wonderful new set of friends, bond and build friendships for life, but bottom line a GLO is usually associated to a college and university, which means one attempt to get a degree in a respective field to move forward in their life... If strong educational support, with other activities occur, then should the "tier-ness" of an organization matter?

The question is like my Father's chant when he was in school:

"We party hard and stay up late, but most of all we graduate..."

[Fleur de Lis]

blondebutsmart,

My understanding is that tiers are determined by how many women want to join the chapter that year. Sometimes it is very clear and part of campus culture (like an Old Row designation) but can also be a certain mix of sisters that make people want to be a part of them. Sometimes it's just a bunch of shallow but beautiful girls that all wear designer clothes and get smashed with the hottest guys on campus, and for some reason this is attractive to PNMs. Tiers change at most schools and you are much better off considering sororities that you feel you connected to.

I think sisters in "lower-tier" sororities often enjoy their experience more because "upper-tier" sisters may look around and think "ok, I joined this super popular house but I don't feel like I belong". The "lower-tier" knows that everyone in the chapter really wants to be there, not just because they won the popularity contest.

One more thing: if you've been reading other threads, then you know sometimes GC posters say not-so-supportive things. Don't let random people with too much time on THEIR hands (let's all admit it) get you down. You asked a good question and for the most part have gotten great answers!

[UGAalum94]

Nice work, Fleur de Lis. I think you described it well.

OP, I don't think it was supposed to be taken really personally, but if you are likely to internalize the responses you get, posting on GC is almost guaranteed to make you unhappy.

I'm not saying it shouldn't be a nicer place or that you've done anything wrong (because you haven't), but the answers you get might not be 100% validating and supportive, and it's a risk of posting.

[jwsteele]

Originally Posted by Fleur de Lis

blondebutsmart,

Sometimes it's just a bunch of shallow but beautiful girls that all wear designer clothes and get smashed with the hottest guys on campus, and for some reason this is attractive to PNMs.

I think sisters in "lower-tier" sororities often enjoy their experience more because "upper-tier" sisters may look around and think "ok, I joined this super popular house but I don't feel like I belong". The "lower-tier" knows that everyone in the chapter really wants to be there, not just because they won the popularity contest.

No.

As a long time lurker, there aren't many cases where I'll step out of the shadows and say something is wrong. But this attitude is 100% wrong.

First, as for the "lower-tier" sorority members knowing that everybody wanted them there, by playing devil's advocate you could say they'd feel like, "the only reason these girls really wanted me is because I was cut from other houses and the chapter's favorite girls cut them." Sound like an absurd claim? That's how your statement came off.

Second, on my campus I am in the unique position in that the two houses I am closest with are on very different ends of the spectrum. One is THE "blonde, rich girl" chapter and the other one isn't the lowest in terms of tiers, but pretty damn close. The reason why I was attracted to both groups is because they are both full of members who absolutely love their sorority and you can feel the bond at every event we're at with either one. On the other hand, I know of a "top chapter" and the "bottom chapter" at our school that have very poor sisterhood. The "bottom chapter" always has a terrible rush because they come off as desparate with low-morale (while the other bottom chapter has done well recently because they love their house despite reputations). The poor-sisterhood "top chapter" has had some challenging rushes recently because the PNMs they want the most have gone to the other two top chapters who have extremely strong sisterhood (and it shows).

So tiers don't matter, I agree with you there. However to suggest that the "pretty sororities" generally have a less meaningful time and are shallow just because they are pretty (and I can argue with that as well...in the "prettiest chapter" I just discussed there are many many many women who I'd say are plain or unattractive, they just had personalities that are extremely larger-than-life) is invalid. This is the complete opposite of the "give all chapters a chance" that is preached like gospel on GreekChat (and rightly so) but for some reason when somebody calls the "top chapters" out for unfounded reasons nobody blinks an eye. Why is that? Because in my experience statements like the ones above are just as unfounded as negative statements about smaller chapters.

Just some food for thought.

[Fleur de Lis]

jwsteele,

In a weird way, I think we're trying to say the same thing - sisterhood is more important that what tier a sorority is in.

Sometimes PNMs have this idea that if they join the most prestigious sorority they can get into, their life will somehow improve over finding a group that works best for them, and I was attempting to show a small example of this. Of course, sometimes the most prestigious sorority IS the best fit.

The "beautiful but shallow" comment was meant to be tongue in cheek. I'm not insinuating that all 'beautiful' chapters are shallow or have less of a sisterhood. Often they are attractive to PNMs because of the strong bond.

But I appreciate you calling out my inconsistencies so that PNMs reading this don't misunderstand my words.

[blondebutsmart]

Thank you to all those who sent me PMs! I was reeling somewhat from some of the responses I received. I had to step back and re-evaluate.

I thought I had "framed my questions constructively."

My purpose in asking the questions was to gain an understanding of the reasoning behind why someone would be so intent on joining a "higher tier" sorority when it might not be the best fit for them--and to determine how those girls might feel if they accepted a bid into a "lower tier" or "mid tier" sorority.

I now understand that some girls (and their moms) have been planning this time for many years. My mom is not Greek, nor is anyone in my family, so I don't have that pressure. My mom doesn't care if I do or don't join a sorority. She just wants me to become involved in SOMETHING and have fun in college (after academics are taken care of, of course).

If I go through recruitment, I wouldn't rule anyone out because of tiers (higher or lower). I was a cheerleader in high school and was probably considered popular, but I had friends in all different groups (athletes, theatre, and the academics). I think it's more important to feel connected to people rather than an image.

Thanks also to all those who posted with constructive comments. To those who didn't, well . . . I guess I wonder what's bothering you that you have to be nasty. I thought sisterhood was a bonding experience, but I'm an idealist.

[Benzgirl]

Originally Posted by blondebutsmart

Thank you to all those who sent me PMs! I was reeling somewhat from some of the responses I received. I had to step back and re-evaluate.

I thought I had "framed my questions constructively."

My purpose in asking the questions was to gain an understanding of the reasoning behind why someone would be so intent on joining a "higher tier" sorority when it might not be the best fit for them--and to determine how those girls might feel if they accepted a bid into a "lower tier" or "mid tier" sorority.

I now understand that some girls (and their moms) have been planning this time for many years. My mom is not Greek, nor is anyone in my family, so I don't have that pressure. My mom doesn't care if I do or don't join a sorority. She just wants me to become involved in SOMETHING and have fun in college (after academics are taken care of, of course).

If I go through recruitment, I wouldn't rule anyone out because of tiers (higher or lower). I was a cheerleader in high school and was probably considered popular, but I had friends in all different groups (athletes, theatre, and the academics). I think it's more important to feel connected to people rather than an image.

Thanks also to all those who posted with constructive comments. To those who didn't, well . . . I guess I wonder what's bothering you that you have to be nasty. I thought sisterhood was a bonding experience, but I'm an idealist.

When I went through Recruitment, I felt very much the same way. The only greeks I had in my family either went to very small schools or very large "greek schools" in the south.

After I pledged, I realized that some of the houses that I dropped after the first round were considered the Top Tiers. I remember one house in particular (which was suppose to be the skinny, cute, rich girls) where the girl that rushed me in the first round giggled the whole time. I had to carry the conversation. In a way, being blind to the politics of reccruitment guided me to where I felt most comfortable and least intimidated.

I had very few recs, went to no teas, didn't have a helicopter mom who planned the rest of my life during childhood, and didn't shop for a "rush wardrobe". In fact, I borrowed my roommates dress for Pref.

The only pact I made was to call my brother after pref (he was a senior at the same school) and go over my choices. My one, two and three chioces matched his exactly. It turned out that one of his very best female friends became a sister of mine and I had never met her during rush.

Put on the blinders, put in the earplugs. Forget about what others say and go with your heart.

[texas*princess]

Originally Posted by blondebutsmart

Maybe I'm overanalyzing (part of my personality), but it didn't say:

collegians or pnm's with concerns = too much time on one's hands

or

collegians or pnm's with concerns = too much time on their hands



The comment used the word YOUR, so I took it personally because that's what it seemed like to me. Maybe I made a mistake. Sorry. I'm done.

I think you are overanalyzing it.

Sometimes people use the words "you" and "your" when they aren't neccessarily directing the post towards anyone... it's just a general "you" "your" reference.

[AOII Angel]

blondebutsmart,

Tiers only REALLY matter at southern schools. It's otherwise just used as a way to describe which groups are the most popular. That's no different than in high school when the group of popular girls were compared to a group of less popular girls. The girls in each group were usually not worried about which "tier" they were in because they were just hanging with their friends. The less popular girls may sometimes wish they were in a different "tier" when they thought about being Homecoming Queen or dating the cute quarterback, but usually they thought they probably wouldn't have much to say to the higher "tier" girls. It's the same thing in college. As for southern schools (like the SEC,) Mama's have raised their daughters with the idea that they can ONLY be an XYZ or an ABC. It is only acceptable to be one of these top tier members. This is why you hear about girls dropping out of rush rather than joining a lower tier group. It's stupid, but it serves those girls right for hanging onto these old social rules. They even write books about it!! If your Mama didn't drill into your head that you'd embarass the whole family if you joined DEF, than you'll be fine. Have a good time at recruitment.

[violetpretty]

Do tiers exits at most campuses? Of course. Do they matter? Nope. If being in a middle or low tier chapter was so horrible, those chapters would cease to exist. Obviously the members find their experience in their low and middle tier chapters valuable and rewarding or they wouldn't have pledged and stayed members for as long as they have. Sure, there are PNMs out there who drop out of recruitment when they don't get the invites that they want, but tons of women have just as good of an experience in a low or middle tier chapter as they do in a top tier. It all depends what you are looking for in a sorority.

ETA: Also, about mixing with fraternities/dating men in certain fraternities, I can think of lots of couples where it's not "top with top" or "low with low". I can think of couples where the girl is a low tier chapter dating a guy in a top tier chapter and vice versa. Maybe it matters more at other schools. Guys aren't going to not date you if you are in a low or middle tier chapter, unless those silly rules are true on some campuses.

[carnation]

Violetpretty, that has to be one of the best summaries of tiers that I’ve ever read!

[DSTRen13]

Originally Posted by violetpretty

Also, about mixing with fraternities/dating men in certain fraternities, I can think of lots of couples where it's not "top with top" or "low with low". I can think of couples where the girl is a low tier chapter dating a guy in a top tier chapter and vice versa. Maybe it matters more at other schools. Guys aren't going to not date you if you are in a low or middle tier chapter, unless those silly rules are true on some campuses.

I can't imagine why anyone would want to date someone who would actually follow such a stupid "rule" anyway ... I mean, who's going to bawl their eyes out over a guy who wouldn't go out with them because he disapproved of sorority's campus status?

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by DSTRen13

I can't imagine why anyone would want to date someone who would actually follow such a stupid "rule" anyway ... I mean, who's going to bawl their eyes out over a guy who wouldn't go out with them because he disapproved of sorority's campus status?

I completely agree with that sentiment.

However, if you know that you want to meet the hotties in fraternity XYX, and you know that sorority WTH have regular socials with them and sorority QTPi doesn't, that's when you get yourself into making kind of funny tier based decisions.

It's not that their are strict rules anyplace that I know of, and I wish it weren't true, but at colleges where tiers are a big deal, a member of a lower tiered group might have to work a lot harder to meet members of top tier groups.

It's all kind of nuts but it's still kind of exists, and if that's what your social GLO organization joining priorities are. . .

[violetpretty]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

It's not that their are strict rules anyplace that I know of, and I wish it weren't true, but at colleges where tiers are a big deal, a member of a lower tiered group might have to work a lot harder to meet members of top tier groups.

Maybe not "work harder" but just meet in different places other than mixers. Agreed that top tier and low tier chapters often do not have mixers together, but you can meet someone in class, or through some inter-Greek activity like Homecoming/Greek Week committee, IFC/PHA collaborations, Order of Omega, lobbying for the Greek Housing bill (ok only in DC), etc. All of these avenues are "tier-blind".